DCAudioDIY.com

DC Area Audio DIYer's Community
It is currently September 24th, 2018, 5:40 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 46 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: September 13th, 2018, 12:12 pm 
Offline

Joined: July 17th, 2016, 6:24 am
Posts: 440
What is the difference between two?

How are Guitar woofers different than home audio woofers? As far as I can tell, guitar woofers are large with high bandwidth of about 50Hz to 4kHz.

When and why anyone would use guitar woofer for home audio?

_________________
Shashi


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: September 13th, 2018, 12:55 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: July 24th, 2015, 4:17 pm
Posts: 682
Location: Parkville, Maryland
Cogito wrote:
What is the difference between two?

How are Guitar woofers different than home audio woofers? As far as I can tell, guitar woofers are large with high bandwidth of about 50Hz to 4kHz.

When and why anyone would use guitar woofer for home audio?


Guitar speakers and their enclosures provide the sound character desired for the musician and do not lend themselves to high fidelity reproduction. The are part of the guitar more than a means to amplify the guitar.

Home audio woofers hopefully have the neutrality and bandwidth to serve high fidelity reproduction. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. LOL!

_________________
Walt


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: September 13th, 2018, 1:16 pm 
Offline

Joined: February 28th, 2013, 3:31 pm
Posts: 906
I agree with Walt. A fundamental difference is that the guitar woofers are part of the chain that creates the music. As such, tonal anomalies (read distortions) are part of the creation of a desired sound.

Home woofers ideally are designed to reproduce the original sound, not create the sound itself. Therein lies the difference. A home woofer that has high distortion cannot accurately reproduce the recorded sound and is therefore not ideal. A woofer that is very true to the sound may sound a little flat or dry if used with a guitar, thus limiting the creation of a desired sound.

Although the bandwidth of woofers designed for either application might be the same, often home woofers that are part of a multi driver speaker are not required to go as high as guitar woofers. Two way systems with smaller woofers strain that concept.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: September 13th, 2018, 2:30 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: July 24th, 2015, 4:17 pm
Posts: 682
Location: Parkville, Maryland
tomp wrote:
I agree with Walt. A fundamental difference is that the guitar woofers are part of the chain that creates the music. As such, tonal anomalies (read distortions) are part of the creation of a desired sound.

Home woofers ideally are designed to reproduce the original sound, not create the sound itself. Therein lies the difference. A home woofer that has high distortion cannot accurately reproduce the recorded sound and is therefore not ideal. A woofer that is very true to the sound may sound a little flat or dry if used with a guitar, thus limiting the creation of a desired sound.

Although the bandwidth of woofers designed for either application might be the same, often home woofers that are part of a multi driver speaker are not required to go as high as guitar woofers. Two way systems with smaller woofers strain that concept.



I had a class at the U of B Shady Grove and a student asked when recording an electric guitar why don't they just connect up to a line input on the mixing desk rather than place a microphone in front of the cabinet. He thought it would be a more direct method. Good question.

The guitar amp. and speaker is like the body of an acoustic guitar. Instead of the sound resonating through the guitar's body, creating sound -- the string magnetic pick-up sources the sound through the guitar amp and cabinet. Each method has a characteristic sound with the electric guitar winning on loudness and the ability to manipulate the sound character through the electronics and controls. One ROCKS and the other soothes.

_________________
Walt


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: September 13th, 2018, 8:14 pm 
Offline

Joined: February 28th, 2013, 3:31 pm
Posts: 142
I'm going to disagree somewhat with Tom and Walt. There are some instrument woofers that make (made) the grade for use as audio speakers. In particular,the JBL E-145 15" woofer was used in the UREI 801C coax studio monitors for many years, and used in hundreds of studios worldwide. They don't go deep, but they have very natural midrange and midbass and are just excellent woofers.

It has to be understood they are old technology of course, and come with that baggage but are completely suited to home or studio use in the right system imho.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: September 13th, 2018, 8:15 pm 
Offline

Joined: February 28th, 2013, 3:31 pm
Posts: 142
http://www.jblpro.com/pages/pub/components/eseries.pdf


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: September 13th, 2018, 8:33 pm 
Offline

Joined: February 28th, 2013, 3:31 pm
Posts: 142
A comparison of JBL monitors. The UREIs utilize the E-145 woofer.

http://www.cieri.net/Documenti/JBL/Tech ... 0No.15.pdf


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: September 14th, 2018, 12:01 am 
Offline

Joined: February 28th, 2013, 3:31 pm
Posts: 142
JBL E-145 woofer


Attachments:
e145_914.jpg
e145_914.jpg [ 57.02 KiB | Viewed 276 times ]
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: September 14th, 2018, 9:46 am 
Offline

Joined: February 28th, 2013, 3:31 pm
Posts: 906
Jim G wrote:
I'm going to disagree somewhat with Tom and Walt. There are some instrument woofers that make (made) the grade for use as audio speakers. In particular,the JBL E-145 15" woofer was used in the UREI 801C coax studio monitors for many years, and used in hundreds of studios worldwide. They don't go deep, but they have very natural midrange and midbass and are just excellent woofers.

It has to be understood they are old technology of course, and come with that baggage but are completely suited to home or studio use in the right system imho.


Like everything else in this world, there are always exceptions. A few of the JBL drivers fit into that category. However even the E145 was limited by having an Xmax of only 7mm. It was about 2 to 3 times that of most of the other JBL drivers so that will tell you how limited the rest of them were. In addition, even a used E145 sells for around $300. For comparison, the Dayton Audio RSS390-HO 15 " woofer has an Xmax of 12mm which is almost double the linear output and sells new for $190. I am using two of the 12" versions in each of the pyramids for the eggs and I can tell you they do not take a back seat to any JBL driver for smooth response and low distortion. Ask David Berning how my floor shakes even when driven by one of his 6W tube amps. The fact remains that for the vast majority of guitar woofers their linear low bass output and flat frequency response suffer in comparison to equivalently priced home audio woofers.

BTW, the Fs of the E145 was 35 Hz and the VAS was 10.6 cu ft compared to an Fs of 21.5 Hz and VAS of 5.9 cu ft for the Dayton. The Dayton will produce far more low bass with less distortion in a far smaller box which is important for home use. No refrigerator sized enclosures needed for the Dayton.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: September 14th, 2018, 10:39 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: July 24th, 2015, 4:17 pm
Posts: 682
Location: Parkville, Maryland
tomp wrote:
Jim G wrote:
I'm going to disagree somewhat with Tom and Walt. There are some instrument woofers that make (made) the grade for use as audio speakers. In particular,the JBL E-145 15" woofer was used in the UREI 801C coax studio monitors for many years, and used in hundreds of studios worldwide. They don't go deep, but they have very natural midrange and midbass and are just excellent woofers.

It has to be understood they are old technology of course, and come with that baggage but are completely suited to home or studio use in the right system imho.


Like everything else in this world, there are always exceptions. A few of the JBL drivers fit into that category. However even the E145 was limited by having an Xmax of only 7mm. It was about 2 to 3 times that of most of the other JBL drivers so that will tell you how limited the rest of them were. In addition, even a used E145 sells for around $300. For comparison, the Dayton Audio RSS390-HO 15 " woofer has an Xmax of 12mm which is almost double the linear output and sells new for $190. I am using two of the 12" versions in each of the pyramids for the eggs and I can tell you they do not take a back seat to any JBL driver for smooth response and low distortion. Ask David Berning how my floor shakes even when driven by one of his 6W tube amps. The fact remains that for the vast majority of guitar woofers their linear low bass output and flat frequency response suffer in comparison to equivalently priced home audio woofers.

BTW, the Fs of the E145 was 35 Hz and the VAS was 10.6 cu ft compared to an Fs of 21.5 Hz and VAS of 5.9 cu ft for the Dayton. The Dayton will produce far more low bass with less distortion in a far smaller box which is important for home use. No refrigerator sized enclosures needed for the Dayton.



Free air resonance and displacement goes a long way to determine bass performance in any box. To add insult to injury with a Fs of 35-Hz. you will get issues a decade above at about 350-Hz. That would make it seem like one is getting a lot of bass but it is more along the lines of "boom."

_________________
Walt


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 46 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group