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New Cartridge brake-in deadly
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Author:  David McGown [ January 7th, 2018, 6:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Cartridge brake-in deadly
Has there ever been a real case of a counterfeit Denon DL-103 or DL-103R? The cartridges are so inexpensive, I would think it would be cost prohibitive to counterfeit the thing if it what was sold was a functional cartridge.

David
Author:  Cogito [ January 7th, 2018, 7:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Cartridge brake-in deadly
David McGown wrote:
Has there ever been a real case of a counterfeit Denon DL-103 or DL-103R? The cartridges are so inexpensive, I would think it would be cost prohibitive to counterfeit the thing if it what was sold was a functional cartridge.

David


It may be genuine but the stylus could be defective.
Author:  Pelliott321 [ January 7th, 2018, 8:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Cartridge brake-in deadly
The Denon 103 is such a popular cartridge that they were copied using a cheaper cantalever and a cheaper methods of mounting the stylus.
Considering all the things that are faked including cosmetics I can believe that fake Denon's are out there.
Author:  J-ROB [ January 13th, 2018, 9:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Cartridge brake-in deadly
I don't know the Fern and Roby arm except to say that it sure looks nice!

The 103 and 103R are very low compliance (5) hence they throw a LOT of vibration into the arm. Not all arms deal with this well. It is sort of a specialized, worst case scenario.

More to the point, they like a very heavy arm and the light bass phenomenon you note may indicate that the arm is too light. Try adding weight to the headshell and don't be shy...or use a very heavy headshell if the Fern and Roby takes regular headshells.

At the show, I had a 103 on an 18g Audio Technica headshell. That worked pretty good for bass.

If you have a HFN&RR test disc or similar, run it to see what the resonance of the combo is.
Author:  Pelliott321 [ January 14th, 2018, 10:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New Cartridge brake-in deadly
Thanks J-Rob
I will take what you say to the builder of the Arm, Chris Hildebrand
The aftermarket schel brings the weight of the cartridge up to 10gr.
The headshell is very light, made from an antireasoanent material called Richlite
It's easy to add weight and dampening to the arm and I ave done some but maybe not enough
I still have many hours to go in reaching the 50 hours of break-in"
Author:  J-ROB [ January 14th, 2018, 11:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New Cartridge brake-in deadly
I would ask the designer and see what he has to say, then try more weight at the headshell regardless of what he says!

Believe your ears.

I have encountered reports such as yours many times over the years. More weight is the standard recommendation and usually helps. Even if the 103 is sounding "pretty good" in a particular arm, more weight can often make it better! This is well known among DL103 freaks.

The Denon is very low compliance, probably lower than anything else you can buy. Many contemporary high end arms are happier with compliance of maybe 12 or so, the kind of figure seen with the likes of good Lyra and vdH MCs these days.

Something like an Audio Technica ATP-12 or ATP-16 is a native 103 arm, i.e. a chunky club with rock solid bearings. But even there, skipping the light AT headshell and putting on something like an AT LH-18 (or a heavy shim or a nickel (5g) with bluetak) will provide an improvement in bass and lack of smearing and dramatic involvement.

Anyway, try it...you might like it.
Author:  Pelliott321 [ January 14th, 2018, 11:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New Cartridge brake-in deadly
Thanks, some real meaningful info. So much more enlightening than the usual criticism and peakocking that one finds on these threads.
Chris's arm is designed to be adjusted for mass, at each end of the arm tube.
Author:  J-ROB [ January 14th, 2018, 11:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New Cartridge brake-in deadly
That's because I am a real stable genius! :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

No seriously, the 103 is an artifact of 1960s broadcast technology. It is a really nice sounding cartridge and a good bargain but it can't be treated like or seamlessly substituted for a Grado or a Shure M97.

Lots of people complain that the 103 is smeared, bass light, boring, grayed-out, etc. but they are usually not doing it up properly.

Crank up the weight! More effective mass will help the 103 with most arms, even the Schick 12", which is an old school broadcast arm, basically.
Author:  Pelliott321 [ January 14th, 2018, 10:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Cartridge brake-in deadly
My problem is I am replacing a (what I feel is a pretty special cartridge. My Alpha Genesis 1000 was magic to my ears. I'll never be able to afford anything close to that cartridge
Author:  J-ROB [ January 14th, 2018, 10:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Cartridge brake-in deadly
I remember the Alpha Genesis 1000.

The 103R will not have that monster level of detail. In fact, 103s would ride at the other end of the spectrum with a nice balanced midrange focused musical sound. Definitely not in-your-face detail.

I have not heard any 103 in the Paradox body at home, only in passing by. I'd expect that it would sharpen things up somewhat. The stock case is a rather flimsy piece of plastic which can't be a great solution.

I do think that some of the things people complain about with the 103 series sounding indistinct or loose, has a lot to do with tonearm compatibility. They do snap together in a heavy arm more comfortable with a "nail stuck in an apple" level compliance figure but the sound will always be in the somewhat rich category.

Since you have it, see what you can make it do and give it a shot. These 103 series been in production for like 50 years and there are reasons for it, although it is a major presentational shift from an Alpha Genesis 1000. You might come to like it!

I really like 103s myself, the stock conicals. Good everyday cartridge I think. But I am really over excess treble focus and hyper-detail in audio, so my tastes are probably not generic.

You could get that 1000 retipped if you really loved it.
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