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Cogito
PostPosted: August 1st, 2017, 10:38 am 
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DaveR wrote:
Cogito wrote:
I heard several times loud static while playing DSD files thru Daphile. Dumped it and moved over to foobar2000 and still I heard the static few times, not just as often. This evening I visited our DaveR. We were listening to a few numbers on his system (very good) and heard the same static on DSD from foobar2000. For little over a week I'm using only AP-Linux, not static issues at all.


This was the first time I have heard the static, but it was clearly there. To clarify, the music doesn't have static, all you get is static when whatever happens happens. I suspect the DAC looses sync. I'm not familiar with the DSD protocol, but would expect it would incorporate a means to regain sync in the event it was lost. Assuming this is true, it would be Foobar that goes into the weeds and does not get back out. I haven't done any research yet to see if this is a known issue to the SACD plug-in author and if there is a fix.


Just for the sake of fun.....

You said Windows 7 running foobar2000 and several other non audio related programs is good enough for bit-perfect and time-perfect audio streaming. Now, you hyphesise that DAC lost the sync. Take it one step further and hypothesize why the DAC lost the sync? If the windows 7 is a perfect machine, the problem must reside in the DAC right?
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DaveR
PostPosted: August 1st, 2017, 10:52 am 
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I have never in my life, nor will I, state that anything Microsoft has done is perfect. I did say that Foobar is likely the culprit, or more likely the plug-in that handles DSD output. Regardless, this is not an issue of the PC and Windows being able to deliver data error free in a global audio context. I play PCM audio all day long with no issues.

I have downloaded the new SACD plug-in and will test it today to see if the issue re-occurs.

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Cogito
PostPosted: August 1st, 2017, 11:09 am 
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Sampling frequency of DSD64 you were playing is 64 times that of PCM.

Do you think the high sampling frequency of DSD has anything to do with the problem?
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DaveR
PostPosted: August 1st, 2017, 11:13 am 
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Cogito wrote:
Sampling frequency of DSD64 you were playing is 64 times that of PCM.

Do you think the high sampling frequency of DSD has anything to do with the problem?


No. It's about the same as 176.4K PCM.

I've installed the new plug-in plus another application that sends native DSD out as native DSD and not DOP. Playing now, the playlist should last into the evening. I'll let you know if there are any issues.

For what it's worth, the PC I'm using, if I haven't already said it, is an old Dell Core 2 dual core machine. Not a lot of horsepower, but significantly more than an Intel Atom.

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Cogito
PostPosted: August 1st, 2017, 11:16 am 
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DSD64 sampling rate is 16 times more then 176k PCM.
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Roscoe Primrose
PostPosted: August 1st, 2017, 11:26 am 
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Cogito wrote:
DSD64 sampling rate is 16 times more then 176k PCM.


DSD is one bit samples, so the bit rate is about the same, about 1/350th the bit rate of gigabit Ethernet.... The processors in the Sonore products are MUCH slower than the ones in a typical windows PC, more along the lines of a Raspberry Pi, which can handle DSD or high-rez PCM just fine....

Roscoe

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Grover Gardner
PostPosted: August 1st, 2017, 11:41 am 
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Jim G wrote:
Grover Gardner wrote:
Jim G wrote:
What got me to post this morning was your saying you had that small PC based on the CAPS. I assume it doesn't have the SOTM card, but that could be a reasonable upgrade.(?)


No, it's a mini_PC indentical to their old Sonic Orbiter--at least on the outside. :-)

Send Charlie an email. I'm pretty sure that's the same motherboard in the same case (about 12" square) in that version of the CAPS and the early Sonic Orbiter. Is there room in your case for the SOTM card?


That's interesting. No, it's about a 5-inch square case, their earliest version, I think. I could possibly outboard it, with a separate power supply, or move it all to a new case. I'll look in to it, thanks!
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Cogito
PostPosted: August 1st, 2017, 11:44 am 
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Right Roscoe.

I am trying to make a couple of points to Dave.

1. Network bandwidth is not like a faucet. There is no continuous flow of bits from one end to the other . It's all packets with acknowledgment of each packet, re transmissions etc . Granted if the packet doesn't arrive at the DAC in time or is corrupted, DAC simply drops the packet and moves on.

2. What packets are sent over the USB and when is determined by the time division algorithms of the OS. Hence the talk about deterministic OSs.
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DaveR
PostPosted: August 1st, 2017, 11:47 am 
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Cogito wrote:
DSD64 sampling rate is 16 times more then 176k PCM.


You are correct that I was wrong. And you are correct that DSD64 is 16 times the sample rate, but it's only one bit samples. DSD64 = 2,822,400 bits/second for two channels, 1,411,200 bits per second per channel. If we assume 16 bit words that brings it to 88.2 kWords or 44.1 kBytes per second. Sorta like a redbook CD.

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DaveR
PostPosted: August 1st, 2017, 11:50 am 
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Cogito wrote:
Right Roscoe.

I am trying to make a couple of points to Dave.

1. Network bandwidth is not like a faucet. There is no continuous flow of bits from one end to the other . It's all packets with acknowledgment of each packet, re transmissions etc . Granted if the packet doesn't arrive at the DAC in time or is corrupted, DAC simply drops the packet and moves on.

2. What packets are sent over the USB and when is determined by the time division algorithms of the OS. Hence the talk about deterministic OSs.


I fully understand that Windows is an interrupt driven OS. Interrupts have different priority levels, higher levels get servicing preference. Interrupts are assigned priority level based on the tolerance of the service generating the interrupt for delays. Computers have worked this way since the very beginning.

Can you provide any proof that data is not getting to the DAC without errors?

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