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PostPosted: September 17th, 2021, 8:21 pm 
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OK, update.

I am playing back a DSD64 recording through the MScalar with the Chord DAVE set for DSD Plus. The MScalar is indicating DSD input, and the upsample rate is at max. The incoming bitstream to the DAVE is 706kHz on the display. Therefore, I believe the MScalar is doing something with the data, not clear if it is converting to PCM or upscaling DSD. I am sending DSD64 as DoP to the MScalar. Manually switching between DSD Plus and PCM Plus does change the sound, with the DSD Plus sounding more open and more recessed than PCM Plus. It is very subtle, and I cannot say that I am not mistaken. The DAVE cannot inform the MScalar that it is changing modes, so it appears likely the MScalar is sending upscaled DSD.

David


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PostPosted: September 17th, 2021, 8:33 pm 
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David,

705,600Hz is 16 times 44,100Hz.
Min freq of DSD is 64 x 44,100 = 2,822,400 Hz (equivalent to 88kHz PCM)
This means MScaler is upsampling DSD64 into 706kHz PCM, which makes sense as DAVE will have to convert DSD input to PCM anyways. That’s the reason HQPlayer is recommending outputting only PCM to Chord DACs.


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PostPosted: September 17th, 2021, 9:01 pm 
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Shashi,

I am not totally convinced. I do hear a difference with the DAVE setup for DSDPlus and PCMPlus, with the sound quality better in DSDPlus. So I think the conversion is happening in the DAVE, not the MScalar. The DSD Plus mode passes PCM through with no change.

David


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PostPosted: September 17th, 2021, 9:14 pm 
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This is what Rob Watts says:

So the DSD treatment isn't quite as stated - it's via a dedicated filter that takes the DSD, removes the hideous RF noise and out of band distortion and noise from DSD, and decimates it down to 705 kHz. This filter is extremely effective, with 220 dB attenuation of out of band noise.

So why do we need to process DSD? Two reasons - one to do volume and cross-feed functions (which need n bit PCM - remember too that DSD is PCM it's just 1 bit), and second is if I didn't remove DSD's distortion and noise I would get poor analogue performance, with noise floor modulation and copious levels of distortion. In this case simple is not the best, it's just distorted.

So you may question why decimate down to 705kHz and not maintain the original DSD frequency. In Dave I have DSD filters that are non-decimating - they just filter the incoming bitstream and maintain the sample rate. But these filters sound noticeably inferior to the filter in the M scaler (and TT2, it's identical code), and this is due to the Dave DSD+ filters not being as effective as the M scaler filter. Decimating down to 705 kHz has no SQ problems so long as you eliminate aliasing, and you do that by having 220dB filtering...


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PostPosted: September 17th, 2021, 9:22 pm 
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From Stereophile:

Quote:
In the promotional literature for the M Scaler, Chord writes, "The Hugo M Scaler . . . takes the digital file and repairs it, adding back the information lost between the samples, then it sends the repaired file to the DAC. . . . With 705,600 samples per second, a huge amount of important information that was lost when creating the 44.1 digital file is now recovered. The more samples, the closer you get to the original analog signal. . . . The Hugo M Scaler in essence places 15 additional new musical samples in between each original musical sample, resulting in an astounding improvement in the recreation of the original music signal."


In essence, MScsler is sending PCM data to Dave. The difference you hear between DSDPlus and PCMPlus might be due to the difference in algorithms in MScaler.


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PostPosted: September 17th, 2021, 11:00 pm 
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Location: Parkville, Maryland
Roscoe Primrose wrote:
SoundMods wrote:
And people complain about vinyl being a royal pain-in-the-ass. :angry-banghead:


At least I don't have to get up in the middle of dinner and flip the digital...

Roscoe

Somehow I knew you were going to have a comment. :lol:

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PostPosted: September 18th, 2021, 9:42 am 
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In addition to what Roscoe posted about HQPlayer server, following upgrades are necessary for quality audio IMO.

1. USB Interface
The default USB interface which comes with any motherboard is not suitable for high end audio. It is noisy and jittery.
A quality PCI USB card from companies like JCAT or SOtM are absolute necessity. These cards have quality clocks and noise filtration circuits.
To realize the full potential of these cards, they need to be powered by dedicated external LPS like SBooster, Shanti etc.

2. Network Interface
Avoid wireless networking at any cost in the HQP server.
Even in the wired network, there is lot of noise in the data lines. There are 2 ways the network noise can be eliminated.
a. Use of dedicated add-on NICs from companies like JCAT
b. Convert the electrical network into fiberoptic network. Fiberoptic network rejects all noise in the electrical network.

Cost estimates.
1. Add-ON USB Cards: $350 - $950
2. USB Card external LPS: $200 - $500
3. PIC Network Card: $500
or
Ethernet to Fiber converters: $200-$300

Optional:
If you wish to upscale redbook to DSD512 using Sinc-L filter, quality GPU like Nvidia RTX 3090 is necessary which costs about $3,000. With this config, the cost of HQP goes in the 5k-6k range, lot more than a new MScaler.


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PostPosted: September 18th, 2021, 11:30 am 
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SoundMods wrote:
Roscoe Primrose wrote:
SoundMods wrote:
And people complain about vinyl being a royal pain-in-the-ass. :angry-banghead:


At least I don't have to get up in the middle of dinner and flip the digital...

Roscoe

Somehow I knew you were going to have a comment. :lol:


Just like we all knew you’d have to bring vinyl into a digital thread….

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I can explain it to you, but I can’t understand it for you.


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PostPosted: September 18th, 2021, 12:19 pm 
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Don't be scared by Jim & Shasi's posts.... Can you get better sound if you upgrade those things? Sure. Do you need to do all those things to get better sound with HQPlayer than w/o it? Absolutely not.

Roscoe

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I can explain it to you, but I can’t understand it for you.


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PostPosted: September 18th, 2021, 5:22 pm 
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I repeat what I wrote last May in another post when David McGown wrote:

"Just saw this posted on HQPlayer, a direct comparison of the software against the Chord Hugo M Scaler on Chord TT2 and DAVE DACs. Pretty interesting article on the capabilities, flexibility, and performance of the $260 software vs the cost of the M Scaler ($5000).

https://audiobacon.net/2021/03/17/hqpla ... M%20Scaler.

It does look pretty interesting."

To which I replied:

"One additional benefit I don't think is discussed in the article of the M Scaler over HQPlayer is its simplicity. I have had HQPlayer for years on a Windows PC but I have rarely used it. I found the HQPlayer software to be extremely capable and confusing as to optimal settings. I also have HQPlayer on my Linux Roon Server and I have never used it. With the M Scaler, especially with the Chord DACs it's just a match made in heaven, plug and play and all you want to do is listen to music. I suppose whenever I find the time and inclination to experiment with HQPlayer, I will (which is why I bought it)."

I'm sure Roscoe will not be deterred from playing with HQPlayer and when he is ready will experiment with the M Scaler.


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