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 Post subject: Re: Digital Music Server
PostPosted: May 9th, 2021, 9:32 pm 
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Joined: June 4th, 2013, 2:39 pm
Posts: 488
David McGown wrote:
Shashi,

Although one can use (and should to experiment and find what works), there is a commercial upsampling player called HQPlayer that many people are using within Roon and standalone (w/ a server) The upsampling algorithms and filters are supposed to be very advanced and flexible, and there is one filter that uses a high number of tap (1M) like the M Scalar. You can download to try it out. It does take a very capable computer to process the files. I have NOT tried it, since I decided to go the route of the hardware M Scaler where the code is programmed in an FPGA that does nothing else. But from what I have read (not necessarily heard) is that many pushing the SOTA in renderers are using this software on a dedicated powerful rendering computer. Just putting that out there as something that might be worth the time to check out once you build your new renderer.

David


I've used HQPlayer. It's very interesting and a very different sound from Audirvana. It will only play FLAC, WAV or AIFF, I think--no mp3, m4a or anything like that. The flexibility in choosing filters and dithering algorithms is a lot of fun. But it's also quite expensive. I had no problem running it on my Mac Mini, which I think is an old i5.


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 Post subject: Re: Digital Music Server
PostPosted: May 9th, 2021, 10:01 pm 
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Joined: February 28th, 2013, 1:19 pm
Posts: 915
Just saw this posted on HQPlayer, a direct comparison of the software against the Chord Hugo M Scaler on Chord TT2 and DAVE DACs. Pretty interesting article on the capabilities, flexibility, and performance of the $260 software vs the cost of the M Scaler ($5000).

https://audiobacon.net/2021/03/17/hqpla ... M%20Scaler.


It does look pretty interesting.


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 Post subject: Re: Digital Music Server
PostPosted: May 9th, 2021, 10:34 pm 
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Joined: June 4th, 2013, 2:39 pm
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David McGown wrote:
Just saw this posted on HQPlayer, a direct comparison of the software against the Chord Hugo M Scaler on Chord TT2 and DAVE DACs. Pretty interesting article on the capabilities, flexibility, and performance of the $260 software vs the cost of the M Scaler ($5000).

https://audiobacon.net/2021/03/17/hqpla ... M%20Scaler.


It does look pretty interesting.


That's very interesting. It's a very powerful player. I still have the older version but honestly, I don't mess much with upsampling.


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 Post subject: Re: Digital Music Server
PostPosted: May 9th, 2021, 11:43 pm 
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Joined: July 17th, 2016, 6:24 am
Posts: 1108
HQPlayer is included in GentooPlayer.


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 Post subject: Re: Digital Music Server
PostPosted: May 10th, 2021, 8:02 am 
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Joined: February 19th, 2017, 9:43 am
Posts: 531
So I downloaded the Foobar plugin and have it set to upsample 44.1, 88.2 and 176.4 to 352.8. It's working just fine with the CPU consumption shown playing a redbook file. This is an i7-2600 and Windows 7 x64. Note that the processor speed is not its max of 3400 MHz. To me, this indicates that you don't need a particularly powerful CPU to accomplish what you're attempting.


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 Post subject: Re: Digital Music Server
PostPosted: May 10th, 2021, 8:32 am 
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Joined: July 17th, 2016, 6:24 am
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DaveR wrote:
So I downloaded the Foobar plugin and have it set to upsample 44.1, 88.2 and 176.4 to 352.8. It's working just fine with the CPU consumption shown playing a redbook file. This is an i7-2600 and Windows 7 x64. Note that the processor speed is not its max of 3400 MHz. To me, this indicates that you don't need a particularly powerful CPU to accomplish what you're attempting.



Did you try resampling DSD128?


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 Post subject: Re: Digital Music Server
PostPosted: May 10th, 2021, 8:45 am 
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Do you mean resample DSD128 up or resample up to DSD128? Regardless, I did neither. There is no option for resampling DSD in the Foobar plugin. Isn't 352.8 equivalent to DSD256?

FWIW, I use ReplayGain so albums all have the same relative volume. ReplayGain doesn't work on DSD, big surprise, so I convert everything to PCM on the fly on playback. I only save content in its original format since anything I want done for playback can be on the fly. I like to have the option to be able to go back to the original, bit perfect, file which you can't do after you've done something to the file.

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 Post subject: Re: Digital Music Server
PostPosted: May 10th, 2021, 9:11 am 
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DaveR wrote:
Do you mean resample DSD128 up or resample up to DSD128? Regardless, I did neither. There is no option for resampling DSD in the Foobar plugin. Isn't 352.8 equivalent to DSD256?

FWIW, I use ReplayGain so albums all have the same relative volume. ReplayGain doesn't work on DSD, big surprise, so I convert everything to PCM on the fly on playback. I only save content in its original format since anything I want done for playback can be on the fly. I like to have the option to be able to go back to the original, bit perfect, file which you can't do after you've done something to the file.



libsamplerate plugin is also converting DSD into PCM at the core. But it is also "cleaning up" the signal in the process. It does so even when down sampling.

From what I read, ReplayGain analyzes the track volumes and headrooms in the digital domain. If so, your digital work flow for DSD looks like this:

DSD Source --> Convert to PCM --> Adjust Volume and headroom of PCM --> Libsamplerate resampler --> DAC

DSD source is subjected to conversion twice before the digital stream reaches resampler. In such a scenerio, you may or may not find any improvements by resampling.

My DSD workflow path :

DSD Source --> libsamplerate resampler --> DSC


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 Post subject: Re: Digital Music Server
PostPosted: May 10th, 2021, 9:22 am 
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I don't typically resample stuff for playback. I was showing that there isn't a lot of horse power needed for upsampling, at least for PCM. My DAC can play native DSD, I haven't found there to be any difference between native DSD and DSD converted to PCM so I convert everything to PCM for previously stated reasons.

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 Post subject: Re: Digital Music Server
PostPosted: May 10th, 2021, 9:40 am 
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DaveR wrote:
I was showing that there isn't a lot of horse power needed for upsampling, at least for PCM.


My PC was able resample all PCM sources, even 24bit/192Khz, without an issue. It was also able to handle DSD64 sources. However, on DSD128 sources, it choked.


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