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PostPosted: May 29th, 2020, 8:05 am 
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Jim G wrote:
To get the magic you've experienced, you may want to recreate at your house what they did at the show. I know you have a MZ preamp already, I imagine Mark or Dave would loan you an amplifier. I have a Lampizator you can use, and it shouldn't be hard to get a set of the Anti-Cables. I think you said there's an Innuous server on the way. Then, the only difference is your room. It could be the speakers may prefer the low output impedance of the Berning tube amplifiers, or your cabling is a mismatch. I don't know, but if you heard magic before, try and recreate it since this will be a reference system you'll use to compare other equipment. :-)


The word here that applies is "synergism." I agree with Jim 100%.

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PostPosted: May 29th, 2020, 8:37 am 
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First of all I know what my room sounds like. I been here since 2002. The only change is the speakers.
I can put the Quads in place and the magic returns.
The designer assured me (and I believe home) that there are not changes in the speaker between what I have here and what I heard in Florida, except for run in. The woofers are pro sound eminence. They are very stiff when new. Pink noise will not break them in so I am pumping them at 10Hz with about 1/2 inch excursion for 24 hrs.
He claims what I am hearing is that the top woofer(the one with the higher roll off is not moving freely and causing distortion in the 100 to 600 ha range. We will see. I am willing to give him the benefit of knowing his design. It only takes time.
He told me he has had a few clients that had the same problem and it was corrected with time. This reinforces my position as to me hearing something not quite right. We will see


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PostPosted: May 29th, 2020, 8:55 am 
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What’s really fun is to walk around in the basement and find all the bass nodes.. just one foot one way or the other you can hear the peaks and valleys. The most prevalent one is in the stairwell between floors


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PostPosted: May 29th, 2020, 9:44 am 
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Paul:

There is no need to exercise the woofers for 24 hours. Although the suspension can stiffen with lack of use, it goes back to a working value in very short order. The only thing that changes when the compliance element of the mass/compliance issue changes is the resonant frequency. So unless you are having a problem at that frequency exercising the drivers will not solve your problem. BTW, if you let the drivers sit for a while they will stiffen up again, perhaps not as much as sitting for a very long period.


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PostPosted: May 29th, 2020, 9:47 am 
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Pelliott321 wrote:
First of all I know what my room sounds like. I been here since 2002. The only change is the speakers.
I can put the Quads in place and the magic returns.
The designer assured me (and I believe home) that there are not changes in the speaker between what I have here and what I heard in Florida, except for run in. The woofers are pro sound eminence. They are very stiff when new. Pink noise will not break them in so I am pumping them at 10Hz with about 1/2 inch excursion for 24 hrs.
He claims what I am hearing is that the top woofer(the one with the higher roll off is not moving freely and causing distortion in the 100 to 600 ha range. We will see. I am willing to give him the benefit of knowing his design. It only takes time.
He told me he has had a few clients that had the same problem and it was corrected with time. This reinforces my position as to me hearing something not quite right. We will see

Time will tell -- maybe. The thing is that the 15-inch woofers with stiff paper cones don't rely on excursion capability when reproducing the lower mid-range (say 400 to 600-Hz.) as they do the transmission through the cones. I have similar woofers in the Altecs and I actually modified them by saturating the cones with a polymer about 2-1/2-inches from the voice coils to stiffen them even more to enable better lower mid-range performance. Why? It has to do with the Walsh effect where the sound travels up the cone surface faster than it can travel in air (supersonic). The sound radiating from the cone surface and the sound radiating in the air remain aligned as they arrive perpendicular to the cone simultaneously and expand continuously in all directions.

Having said that -- did the manufacturer have any comments about the tweeters -- it was apparent he was focused on the woofers (unless there was more conversation than revealed in your post)? They seem to dominate in a bad way yet they roll-off starting at 1-kHz. and are down 14-db at about 18-kHz. ????

You know what comprises good sound reproduction based on my personal experiences with you not to mention that you have a pair of Quads to compare against -- trust your ears not a manufacturer's marketing spin.

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PostPosted: May 29th, 2020, 9:54 am 
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Paul:

Here is an example of the parameters of a 10" woofer before and after break in. Note that the parameter changes are minimal. the change in Fs is about 0.7 Hz, hardly noticeable. Also you don't have to be concerned with VAS because they are not in a box
.


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Driver breakin parameter change.png
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PostPosted: May 29th, 2020, 11:28 am 
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I am just relating what the designer/builder said.


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PostPosted: May 29th, 2020, 12:18 pm 
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One example doesn't prove the general case....

http://www.gr-research.com/myths.htm

http://www.gr-research.com/burnin.htm

paint a somewhat different picture...

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PostPosted: May 29th, 2020, 8:50 pm 
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Jim G wrote:
To get the magic you've experienced, you may want to recreate at your house what they did at the show. I know you have a MZ preamp already, I imagine Mark or Dave would loan you an amplifier. I have a Lampizator you can use, and it shouldn't be hard to get a set of the Anti-Cables. I think you said there's an Innuous server on the way. Then, the only difference is your room. It could be the speakers may prefer the low output impedance of the Berning tube amplifiers, or your cabling is a mismatch. I don't know, but if you heard magic before, try and recreate it since this will be a reference system you'll use to compare other equipment. :-)


Funny post.

Preamp, Amp, DAC, Cables and room..... IOW everything except the speaker could be the problem.

You are taking this hobby too seriously Jim.

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PostPosted: May 29th, 2020, 9:18 pm 
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Paul, is that you?

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