DCAudioDIY.com :: View topic - WTB cheap Roon endpoint

How about a cheap DIY Roon Nucleus...

Just recased my NUC7i5BNK into an fanless AKASA Newton case (NUC35-M1B). The case is basically a big heatsink for the CPU. Since I did not have a storage drive in my NUC (relying on a NAS for music files), I decided to install a 2TB SSD in the case so I can just rely on local storage and use the NAS for backup. Anyway, took me an hour to take out the NUC board, remove the heatsink/fan assembly, clean up the CPU thermal paste, and then placed it into the new chassis. Currently copying my library over, mounting the DIYNucleus internal data drive to Synology, and transferring the files using the Synology File Station. I plan on keeping the Roon internal storage share mounted to the NAS so I can keep the two music directories in sync, but use local storage to stream to my endpoint to reduce overall network traffic.

David

Correction to my last post, I am using a minimal Debian on my Atom-based Roon endpoint, not Ubuntu. Just enough running on it to run Roon Bridge, headless, logging in via SSH when needed. Typical load reported by top is around 5% or so when streaming. I have a MPD client running on it as well, but haven't yet got MinimServer configured on my Synology NAS. Roon is convenient, love the metadata.

David

For over a year now I've been using gentooplayer, a Gentoo-based system with multiple player options (MPD, squeezelite, Roon, etc). It has also has built-in UpMpdCli and BubbleUp. It's the most analogue-like installation I've found. It's not free so you need to email for a trial license. He makes an x86 version.

gentooplayer.com

Grover Gardner wrote:

Grover,

Interesting. Are you using it as just a minimal endpoint, or also as a server. Running single box or distributed (client/server)? The options to run MinimServer or RoonServer on the same box as the renderer really increases the load, though I suppose with a powerful enough computer (like Charlie's "SuperServer") it will work well. Noticed RPi is the main focus. There is not much documentation on Roon integration on the website, I suppose that the RoonBridge implementation doesn't need anything, but certainly the RoonServer would.

BTW, I found going from an RPi4 on an LPS as an endpoint to the Intel Atom-based renderer with the JCAT cards and LPS was a major step up in quality. This was comparing similar software (Squeezelite, PiCorePlayer on the Pi, Daphile on the Intel), both purely running as a client to LMS on the NAS. But that was almost a year ago.

David

Author:	tomp [ April 23rd, 2021, 5:58 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: WTB cheap Roon endpoint
Sorry. I thought you were comparing the new DAC to your old one. Tom

Author:	David McGown [ April 25th, 2021, 1:28 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: WTB cheap Roon endpoint
How about a cheap DIY Roon Nucleus... Just recased my NUC7i5BNK into an fanless AKASA Newton case (NUC35-M1B). The case is basically a big heatsink for the CPU. Since I did not have a storage drive in my NUC (relying on a NAS for music files), I decided to install a 2TB SSD in the case so I can just rely on local storage and use the NAS for backup. Anyway, took me an hour to take out the NUC board, remove the heatsink/fan assembly, clean up the CPU thermal paste, and then placed it into the new chassis. Currently copying my library over, mounting the DIYNucleus internal data drive to Synology, and transferring the files using the Synology File Station. I plan on keeping the Roon internal storage share mounted to the NAS so I can keep the two music directories in sync, but use local storage to stream to my endpoint to reduce overall network traffic. David

Author:	Cogito [ April 25th, 2021, 6:17 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: WTB cheap Roon endpoint
David McGown wrote: How about a cheap DIY Roon Nucleus... Just recased my NUC7i5BNK into an fanless AKASA Newton case (NUC35-M1B). The case is basically a big heatsink for the CPU. Since I did not have a storage drive in my NUC (relying on a NAS for music files), I decided to install a 2TB SSD in the case so I can just rely on local storage and use the NAS for backup. Anyway, took me an hour to take out the NUC board, remove the heatsink/fan assembly, clean up the CPU thermal paste, and then placed it into the new chassis. Currently copying my library over, mounting the DIYNucleus internal data drive to Synology, and transferring the files using the Synology File Station. I plan on keeping the Roon internal storage share mounted to the NAS so I can keep the two music directories in sync, but use local storage to stream to my endpoint to reduce overall network traffic. David David, Since you are not using the streaming services, I suggest you try mpd as the music player instead of Roon. It’s the best music player out there. Compared to Roon or JRiver, it sucks at library management. Couple of years ago, Grover and I tried music server Linux distributions, ap-Linux.com and Snakeoil-os.net. If I remember correctly, Grover found ap-Linux too detailed in his system, but I liked it so much I struck with it since then. AP-Linux takes minimalist approach with very light GUI interface. Snake oil tries to be more user friendly with web enabled management and a choice of mpd versions. It just takes an hour to install and them them running. Would be lot of fun. I stayed away from NUCS because you cannot use specialized USB PCI Cards like SoTM or JCAT with them. SoTM made a huge improvement in my system.

Author:	David McGown [ April 25th, 2021, 6:50 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: WTB cheap Roon endpoint
Shashi, I am using Qobuz as a streaming service, and am only using Roon Core (ROCK) on the fanless DIY Nucleus streaming across the network to a custom built (DIY) Intel Atom based Ubuntu endpoint running Roon Bridge with JCAT Ethernet and USB cards, all (including the computer) having linear power supplies. My local MoCA extender in the listening room has a iFi iPowerX instead of the supplied wall wart, which makes a difference. I have still have a few tweaks to do (like upgrade to the JCAT XE from the FEMTO cards I have now). This has been my project over the past year. With Qobuz, I like the integration between online albums and my library, though it is not without faults and frustration at times, but it is more due to finding stuff than sound quality. My digital setup is now a Chord Hugo M Scaler (usb from the endpoint through a KingRex uArt cable), dual BNC into a Chord DAVE that I am buying off Charlie. Also have a Audiolab 6000CDT transport for spinning discs. I still have my Marantz SA8500 SACD player, but it is totally outclassed. Standard CD resolution sounds better than SACD through the M Scaler. The sound I am getting is wonderful. I need to find someplace to rip my SACD collection, which means I can retire my SACD player for good. I will probably eventually build a "SuperServer" like Charlie did, but if I can get the JCAT XE cards working the endpoint, I may take my time on that.

Author:	David McGown [ April 25th, 2021, 7:16 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: WTB cheap Roon endpoint
Correction to my last post, I am using a minimal Debian on my Atom-based Roon endpoint, not Ubuntu. Just enough running on it to run Roon Bridge, headless, logging in via SSH when needed. Typical load reported by top is around 5% or so when streaming. I have a MPD client running on it as well, but haven't yet got MinimServer configured on my Synology NAS. Roon is convenient, love the metadata. David

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Author:	Cogito [ April 25th, 2021, 7:46 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: WTB cheap Roon endpoint
David McGown wrote: Correction to my last post, I am using a minimal Debian on my Atom-based Roon endpoint, not Ubuntu. Just enough running on it to run Roon Bridge, headless, logging in via SSH when needed. Typical load reported by top is around 5% or so when streaming. I have a MPD client running on it as well, but haven't yet got MinimServer configured on my Synology NAS. Roon is convenient, love the metadata. David I didn’t know you are heavily invested in Streaming. Would be interesting to hear your comparison of roon streaming vs mpd playing locally available music files on the Debian system. I don’t understand why you need MinimServer to use mpd. Talk to Dave Raden regarding SACDs.

Author:	David McGown [ April 25th, 2021, 8:36 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: WTB cheap Roon endpoint
Shashi, I have Upmpdcli on the Atom endpoint, which looks for a DNLA server on the network with the music files. That is what MinimServer does. I could run the stock DNLA server that is on my Synology NAS, which would do the trick for testing. I definitely do not want to run off local files on the renderer, I want to keep that as unburdened as possible so all it does is process the incoming network stream into USB digital output. No local processing of data (i.e. decompression, digital processing, or reading off of disks. BTW, I have previous run (pre Roon) a LMS server on the Synology and Squeezelite on the renderer (Daphile setup as a client). Qobuz integration via the plugin was poor and constrained in its view and searching capabilities. Also, LMS transmits compressed files (flac) which the renderer (endpoint) has to decompress. My understanding is that mpd client relies on local renderer decompression of flac files. This is why it is advised (by Charlie and Jim G.) to use uncompressed Flac files or WAV to minimize that load on the endpoint. Roon decompresses at the Core and streams uncompressed data to the endpoint. So there may be technical advantages to Roon in terms of load on the endpoint, as well as keeping efficiency of storage on the server. I do have to say that a freshly setup Roon Core does not sound very good while it is under heavy processing load fine tuning the database. Even though the SSD I added is a mirror of what is on the NAS, it still has to process all the files for level info, crossface, etc. I checked the heatsink chassis, and it is pretty warm. Had to throttle back on the processing just in case. Figure I will let it sit and complete the job before I listen again. I can always go back to reading files off the NAS if the local SSD doesn't pan out. BTW, the AudioLAB 6000CDT transport is pretty good sounding as a source. David

Author:	Grover Gardner [ April 25th, 2021, 10:42 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: WTB cheap Roon endpoint
For over a year now I've been using gentooplayer, a Gentoo-based system with multiple player options (MPD, squeezelite, Roon, etc). It has also has built-in UpMpdCli and BubbleUp. It's the most analogue-like installation I've found. It's not free so you need to email for a trial license. He makes an x86 version. gentooplayer.com

Author:	David McGown [ April 26th, 2021, 6:37 am ]
Post subject:	Re: WTB cheap Roon endpoint
Grover Gardner wrote: For over a year now I've been using gentooplayer, a Gentoo-based system with multiple player options (MPD, squeezelite, Roon, etc). It has also has built-in UpMpdCli and BubbleUp. It's the most analogue-like installation I've found. It's not free so you need to email for a trial license. He makes an x86 version. gentooplayer.com Grover, Interesting. Are you using it as just a minimal endpoint, or also as a server. Running single box or distributed (client/server)? The options to run MinimServer or RoonServer on the same box as the renderer really increases the load, though I suppose with a powerful enough computer (like Charlie's "SuperServer") it will work well. Noticed RPi is the main focus. There is not much documentation on Roon integration on the website, I suppose that the RoonBridge implementation doesn't need anything, but certainly the RoonServer would. BTW, I found going from an RPi4 on an LPS as an endpoint to the Intel Atom-based renderer with the JCAT cards and LPS was a major step up in quality. This was comparing similar software (Squeezelite, PiCorePlayer on the Pi, Daphile on the Intel), both purely running as a client to LMS on the NAS. But that was almost a year ago. David

Author:	Grover Gardner [ April 26th, 2021, 8:29 am ]
Post subject:	Re: WTB cheap Roon endpoint
David McGown wrote: Grover Gardner wrote: For over a year now I've been using gentooplayer, a Gentoo-based system with multiple player options (MPD, squeezelite, Roon, etc). It has also has built-in UpMpdCli and BubbleUp. It's the most analogue-like installation I've found. It's not free so you need to email for a trial license. He makes an x86 version. gentooplayer.com Grover, Interesting. Are you using it as just a minimal endpoint, or also as a server. Running single box or distributed (client/server)? The options to run MinimServer or RoonServer on the same box as the renderer really increases the load, though I suppose with a powerful enough computer (like Charlie's "SuperServer") it will work well. Noticed RPi is the main focus. There is not much documentation on Roon integration on the website, I suppose that the RoonBridge implementation doesn't need anything, but certainly the RoonServer would. BTW, I found going from an RPi4 on an LPS as an endpoint to the Intel Atom-based renderer with the JCAT cards and LPS was a major step up in quality. This was comparing similar software (Squeezelite, PiCorePlayer on the Pi, Daphile on the Intel), both purely running as a client to LMS on the NAS. But that was almost a year ago. David I'm just using it as a renderer on my Allo USBridge Signature. Client is Audrivana on my Mac Mini.

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