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 Post subject: Re: The eggs
PostPosted: October 27th, 2017, 2:23 pm 
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How do you do a double blind test of a passive crossover?

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 Post subject: Re: The eggs
PostPosted: October 27th, 2017, 3:32 pm 
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Location: Parkville, Maryland
tomp wrote:
Cogito wrote:
tomp wrote:
I'm starting with passive (ugh) but will move to active later when time permits for a direct comparison.
Tom


Unless your system is voiced properly with passive crossover components, any comparison with active crossover would be moot point. In my experience, the capacitors in crossovers make a huge difference. I suspect, cheapest active crossover will do well compared to passive crossover with Dayton caps.


This is a subject for another thread but last year a few of the group did a double blind test of passive crossover caps at David Berning's house with some expensive caps there were rated very highly against some that were rated as worse than crap. No one could tell the difference in that test.

Another thing is that using active eliminates the caps, inductors, and resistors. THere is nothing to get in the way between the amp and drivers. You can also do lots more like time alignment, etc with active. BTW, each driver in this system was individually measured and the values of the crossover components individually matched to the drivers.

Tom


There is more to it than simply trading single capacitors in some sort of test rig driven by God-only-knows what. If the test rig is no better than than the worst capacitor than of course you'll not hear a difference. An electronic crossover is is no guarantee that you'll get playback improvement as it adds that much more electronics in the signal path. And there is a still cabling to get in the way of the amp. and drivers -- and as far as damping factor is concerned -- a white paper published almost fifty years ago discussed how low amplifier source impedance enables ringing interaction between the voice-coil inductance, the output stage, and the cable reluctance.

I have found a way and discussed it with many of you (including Dave Wilson) to control a passive crossover to arrest any possible ringing developed because of series or parallel L/C networks used in passive crossovers. My experience and that of Wilson's is the same -- pulse response is improved dramatically leaving passive parts quality the determiner of playback quality.

This is not some half-ass theory -- it works in practice and has been witnessed by several that have sat here and listened to music. Based on what I've read in various review magazines in the past and more recently -- electronic crossovers whether SS or valve get in the way and give the playback an "electronic" quality that is not musical.


:character-oldtimer:

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 Post subject: Re: The eggs
PostPosted: November 3rd, 2017, 10:21 pm 
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Day 1. The Eggs


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 Post subject: Re: The eggs
PostPosted: November 6th, 2017, 11:47 am 
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The care and expertise Tom crafted the Eggs puts many high end manufacturers to shame. They looked fabulous and they sounded equally good. Great Job Tom.

As a matter of fact, they are so good even with dayton caps and solid-stqate amp, they put the million-dollar-room to shame. (I know its a cheap shot, but I had to take it :lol: :lol: )

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 Post subject: Re: The eggs
PostPosted: November 6th, 2017, 12:31 pm 
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Tom,

I thought the eggs imaged phenomenally, I was listening to a track of a Russian opera (live recording) and could clearly hear the performers move about the stage. The sound seemed to be very clear and free of resonance, and the bass well controlled. My only critical comment, which might be due to the recording, room, equipment, or my listening position, was that it was missing some body or warmth to the sound. The voices seemed (to me) to be just a little thinner sounding than life. However, an outstanding demonstration of your craftsmanship and really enjoyed talking to you about all the problems you had to address during the construction.

David


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 Post subject: Re: The eggs
PostPosted: November 6th, 2017, 12:50 pm 
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Thanks for the kind words. We had a lot of people who heard them think they were eggceptional. :crazy: I'll stop with the bad puns. David is correct in that the bass suffered somewhat from a bad suckout in the room but everyone has to deal with the crummy rooms at the show. In addition to the people who thought the sound was outstanding the real measure is the number of people who came back many times to listen again. There were several times in the show where there was standing room only. Probably the best part was the three young men, probably students who came in and then over the course of a day brought three more of their friends one at a time to listen. Maybe there is a chance that we can get more young people into the hobby. I also had a number of people wanting help with their projects and I gave my info to them.


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 Post subject: Re: The eggs
PostPosted: November 9th, 2017, 4:02 pm 
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Any CAF reports of Eggs in the press?

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 Post subject: Re: The eggs
PostPosted: November 9th, 2017, 4:04 pm 
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Yes, check the Stereophile reports. Spotted them yesterday on one of their write-ups.


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 Post subject: Re: The eggs
PostPosted: November 9th, 2017, 5:11 pm 
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AudioXpress wanted a review of the eggs at the show as a teaser for the full article that will probably appear in print late spring or early summer next year. I just sent it off but don't know when it will appear.


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 Post subject: Re: The eggs
PostPosted: November 9th, 2017, 8:10 pm 
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tomp wrote:
AudioXpress wanted a review of the eggs at the show as a teaser for the full article that will probably appear in print late spring or early summer next year. I just sent it off but don't know when it will appear.

But we haven't done the active/passive comparison for your article.


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