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Cone material. Something tells me aluminum shouldn't sound good. But I do like ribbon tweeters VERY much. Plastic and aluminum might be light and fast, but are they good sounding for woofers?

Midrange/midwoofer application. Inexpensive drivers. From ~2kHz down to ~60hz.

Comparing the GR Research M165 that I have with Dayton RS180-4 and Dayton RS180P-4.

The GR, used in 16Ω pairs, sounds pretty good to me.

Thoughts?

GR plastic: http://gr-research.com/m130woofer-1-1.aspx

Dayton Metal: http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-aud ... m--295-374

Dayton Paper: http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-aud ... m--295-375

Thanks,

Stuart

Stuart,

For a midbass/midrange, I would go with paper in a heartbeat. I think it has a more natural sound than plastic. You can always tailor the performance by using speaker doping, such as Dammar varnish or PVA, or more extreme treatments. Look at the top SEAS midbass/midrange, they are paper. Most full range drivers are paper (Fostex, Lowther, etc.).

David

I would not be overly concerned with cone material by itself. It is like evaluating a car engine by the material used in the block as the ultimate determiner of performance. All materials have tradeoffs. Cone materials also come in multiple varieties with different physical characteristics that affect their behavior under different loads. The physical shape of the cone in terms of thickness, thickness tapers, reinforcing ribs, coatings, etc. can also have profound effects. The combination of cone and surround material is also very important leading to some response nasties when they are not properly mated. The best thing to do is to first look at the measurement information provided by the manufacturers or indepent test labs. Many manufacturers are now beginning to provide test results done with equipment from Klippel. Wolfgang Klippel probably knows more about dynamic drive performance than anyone else on the planet. A while back I did a comparison article on the Dumax and Klippel methods but Dumax is now obsolete.

As always there are tradeoffs depending on the application. I can do rudimentary TS parameters and quasi anechoic response measurements with my setup but you will need more than that. At the end of the day proper integration of any driver into a speaker system will give the best results. With passive crossovers, different considerations will probably be necessary for the different drivers including the potential need for Zoebels for impedance anomolies. Of course you must listen to each iteration.

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Walt

My experience has been that to some extent, cone material does overlay a "sound" and there is a family resmblance (eapecially as the driver is pushed outside of its comfort zone). Paper types are what I like most, plastic varieties tend to sound a little duller, slower, smoother, metal tends to sound a bit restrained and hi-fii ish (and poorly designed they sound harsh and clinical), kevlar and other composite cones have some of the qualities of paper and plastic cones etc.

But this is a broad, sweeping generalization. I have heard exceptions to this rule. I like horns and many compression drivers are using al or ti diaphragms. I just tend to prefer speakers with paper drivers, perhaps in part becauae the speaker's designers value what I do (tonal purity, apparent speed, microdynamics etc).

I really do appreciate this input and have ordered a couple of pairs of the Dayton drivers, one with the aluminum cone and one with paper. Pete and David, are you saying that the sonic effects of paper vs aluminum or plastic are audible (and positive with respect to paper) with a driver in the 60Hz to 2kHz range? I'll be cutting off that driver at 2kHz MAXIMUM, maybe as low as 1kHz. TBD with listening, measuring and the DC X2496.

The interest here is clean, low distortion, articulate and well defined sound. But yes, we are hoping for a natural sound.

This is step two in replacement of the Maggies, and I want to get it right. Just can't afford the high priced spread.

Stuart, in general paper will be more articulate and natural sounding, but there is a lot of variability in drivers and not knowing the specific drivers cannot say anything more. However, as I pointed out, you can modify a paper cone driver to deal with a variety of issues, whereas this is harder to do with a metal of plastic cone.