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PostPosted: February 29th, 2016, 10:32 am 
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Hey all,

Sorry I have been away so long. Ended up selling our townhouse in Rodgers Forge, and buying a house in Sparks for more room etc, and life has been a whirlwind.

The new house has a nice garage, which I plan to use fully as my woodworking shop, but I have a concern for the Receiver I normally use. Its an older Kenwood dual voltage receiver. This garage is unheated, so do I need to worry about the cold harming the unit? While it is sealed well by garage standards, there will still be moisture etc present. Should I be looking for a different amp for the shop?


Thanks

Jeff


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PostPosted: February 29th, 2016, 10:46 am 
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From an electrical component standpoint, the most temperature sensitive components I can think of are electrolytic capacitors, which at a minimum are good down to -20C. I would not expect any problem with other components, though it is possible that there might be a slight change on component value due to temperature coefficient. Lubricating grease for tuner may get stiffer, but doubt it would be problematic.

David


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PostPosted: February 29th, 2016, 11:13 am 
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One thought would be to just keep the Kenwood energized.

Or -- insulate the garage aggressively and install a 5-kW horizontal unit heater. With at least R-19 the 5-kW heater (approx. 17,000-btu/hr.) should be fine.

When the garage is not occupied you can set the thermostat to some minimum -- say 35-degrees F. A 30-amp. circuit and #10-awg Romex should get the job done.

That way your wood-working equipment will be closer to the desired operating temperature.

My two cents.


BTW -- I live south-east from you in Parkville.

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PostPosted: March 2nd, 2016, 7:17 am 
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Thanks all. I already insulated the garage door with R9, which has been a huge difference. The tricky part is there are windows on only one side, and that is not the side the sun hits, so I don't get the benefit. Down the road I am hoping to put some windows in on the other side so the sun shines in and warms the space up. It is next to an unheated sunroof that gets up to 70 degrees with ease with just windows.

Just wanted to make sure I was not going to destroy the Kenwood. I know most do not consider Kenwood a great brand, but when this thing was made, it was a beast. The fact it is dual voltage is handy too, in case I ever end up going overseas again. Certainly explains why it is so heavy.


SoundMods- Very nice area! We lived in Rodgers Forge until a month ago when we decided the country was calling. Can't say I miss neighbors being so close!

Thanks Again!


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PostPosted: March 2nd, 2016, 9:14 am 
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SoundMods wrote:
One thought would be to just keep the Kenwood energized.

Or -- insulate the garage aggressively and install a 5-kW horizontal unit heater. With at least R-19 the 5-kW heater (approx. 17,000-btu/hr.) should be fine.

When the garage is not occupied you can set the thermostat to some minimum -- say 35-degrees F. A 30-amp. circuit and #10-awg Romex should get the job done.

That way your wood-working equipment will be closer to the desired operating temperature.

My two cents.


BTW -- I live south-east from you in Parkville.


With all due respect, can the HUH idea, unless you have lots of disposable income burning a hole in your pocket.

While the Kenwood should survive the temperature extremes just fine from an operational standpoint, my concern would be corrosion from condensation in repeated heat/cool cycles. Not just for the Kenwood, but for your power tools as well. Ask me how I know!

You are on the correct path with insulation first. Make sure it's a sealed up room. Ensure that the attic space is insulated and (not knowing whether you have open rafters or a ceiling) relatively air tight.

But the room does need to be at least moderately conditioned, mostly for your tools' and projects' survival. One of two approaches should work best. PTAC or mini-split.

Heating with electric resistance heat is incredibly expensive. 3.414 BTU/watt is as immutable as 12":1' Forget it, use a chemical heat transfer system (unless you want to use propane or, if you have it, natural gas). But, if electricity is the only practical power source, then a heat pump is the way to go.

PTAC is cheaper and easier to install, you see them in hotel rooms, under the windows. Packaged Terminal Air Conditioner, is the name used regardless of whether or not they also heat. Choose a unit which is also a heat pump, and not just one with electric resistance heat. That gets you nowhere.

The reasons to use a mini-split (look up "Mr. Slim") are ease of installation (no huge hole in the wall with framing) and efficiency. The SEER numbers on a mini-split are going to be much higher than the PTAC. Modern mini-splits also usually don't even need electric resistance back-up heating elements such as are contained in most whole house HVAC systems, PTAC and window shaker units.
This means lower operating costs due to the lack of a defrost cycle (when the compressor and the electric heat are on simultaneously!) and emergency heat.

You'll want your work and yourself to be cool while working in the summer, so you're gonna have to add A/C. Might as well provide heat as well.

Typical PTAC:

http://www.heatandcool.com/ptac-air-con ... AvuV8P8HAQ

Mr. Slim:

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=c ... m&tbm=shop

Good luck to you!

Stuart


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PostPosted: March 2nd, 2016, 11:26 am 
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Well -- actually -- unit heaters are fairly efficient and a 5-kW heater in a well insulated space should keep utilization down to no more than 72% when occupied and much less when on a low unoccupied setting. :D

As far as heat pumps are concerned -- they were the power companies way of increasing winter demand by selling the idea of heat pumps. The heat pump was originally developed for areas having mild winters -- like Florida or Vancouver. When you need it most, when the ambient temperatures get below 34-degrees F., you hit the balance point and end up using an auxiliary electric resistance heat duct heater to heat with. And trust me -- those duct heaters are el-cheapo types with nichrome wire elements instead of the more efficient fin-tube types. :thumbdown:

Although the more recent heat pump types will still try to use the heat-of-compression for heating below the balance point you have already reached the point of diminishing returns.

As far as fossil fuels are concerned -- using natural gas as an example -- the cost per Therm has increased substantially over the years following electric rates. And unless you have deep pockets for a condensing furnace with a fairly short expected useful life, you'll only get no more than 80% efficiency -- hardly a bargain. Plus you have the additional cost and maintenance with condensing furnaces having to treat the condensate discharge so as not to rot your sanitary drain piping should you have cast-iron feeds. Even with PVC pipe within the property the street main is cast-iron so you still have an obligation.

Getting back to heat pumps -- you can get air-to-air systems now with a 20-SEER rating or better, but at substantial additional cost per ton over standard systems. There is no free lunch here.

Don't even get me started on geo-thermal systems and how the contractors are using the tax credits to rip people off. :angry-tappingfoot:

If one wants heating and cooling in a well insulated garage I would go with a simple through-the-wall A/C unit together with a unit heater. You'll get the most bang for your buck. :thumbup:

My two cents and I don't expect change.

BTW -- I live and breathe this stuff in my practice.

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PostPosted: March 2nd, 2016, 12:05 pm 
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This may be a little off topic but before you get excited about SEER ratings read the following:

http://www.coolerado.com/2012/09/myth-4 ... er-rating/

Some power companies that were giving energy rebates to suctomers who purchased high SEER rating unit found out that the consumption was not going down as would be expected by the higher SEER rating.

Tom


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PostPosted: March 2nd, 2016, 12:26 pm 
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Location: Parkville, Maryland
A lot depends on utilization and other loads in the house. For example -- there is a certain someone in this home that leave the lights or a TV when not in use.

Also, people make the mistake of using night set back (winter cycle) and daytime set up (summer cycle). The energy it takes to recover when getting back to the desired set point it eats up savings.

Heat pump? -- set it and forget it.

Also, I think it is funny that people will set the thermostat during the winter to something like 76 or 78, and during the summer to something like 68 or 72. WOW! You can't acclimatize that way and at the same time any possible savings are not realized. Recommendation for winter -- 68 Recommendation for summer -- 76 Anything outside those "windows" people find uncomfortable. Also, if you run the fan continuously in the winter the house self-balances, the system reclaims stratified heat instead of constantly duty-cycling, and like magic cold drafts disappear. Summer cycle just let the fan run on demand otherwise you get humidity creep.

A water heater -- using a clothes washer and dryer during peak hours -- using a dishwasher during peak hours -- all can smother the savings from a more efficient A/C unit.

When this was an incandescent household I saw it on the utility bills. Now we are a LED household.

If you take advantage of time-of-day billing practices you can cut consumption dramatically.

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PostPosted: March 2nd, 2016, 12:56 pm 
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Walt:

I'm a member of the Izaak Walton League of America, ROckville Chapter. They are a conservation organization and could probably use your expertise. Here is a link to the Harford Chapter which should be near you if you are interested:

http://www.iwla.org/harfordcounty

Tom


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PostPosted: March 2nd, 2016, 2:26 pm 
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Location: Parkville, Maryland
Thanks!

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