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 Post subject: Re: First tube amp
PostPosted: January 28th, 2015, 6:45 pm 
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Joined: April 22nd, 2013, 12:58 pm
Posts: 285
Jeff,

How about if we all just show up at your house one weekend with our amps, and demonstrate them on your speakers.
It's what we do.... Ha Ha.

:text-givemebeer:
^^ and that...^^


JDCrae wrote:
To be honest, I am not sure I am quite ready to get something. The reason I say this is there are so many different kinds of tube amps. (My apologies for such a stupid thing to say) I have never seen the inside of one, nor had one, so I am truly learning every time each of you suggest something. David's mention of the ZOTL was the first I had heard of an ouput transformerless amp. I just didn't realize all the different styles, terms, models, etc. It's honestly a bit overwhelming. Its hard for someone with little to no tube amp knowledge to understand the differences between a push-pull, single ended triode, pentode, and tetrode, Class A , AB, C apparently (Had no idea there was a class c amp. With speakers I can usually tell quality by looking. Looking at the construction methods, the quality of veneers and types of veneers, and even the drivers have indications of quality. Sure some are deceiving, but the 100K Tidal speakers I saw at CAF, looked like they would cost 100K. Not that they should, but they looked as though they would. Same with speaker cables that are $2500 per linear foot. Looking at them, you know its going to be expensive.

Tube amps on the other hand seem a bit deceiving. They look very simple, small chassis with tubes and transformers on top, usually not much flash or anything like that. Some very simple looking amps cost more than 10K though. It is, for me at this point, very hard to see differences in quality. Given the numbers of websites I have visited researching this project idea of mine, I have seen 100 dollar hybrid amps (still don't know what that means exactly) all the way to 10,000 dollar amps. Interestingly the chassis' are usually similar, brushed aluminum or wood, the tubes look similar as well. The only thing to the newcomers eye is the size and number of transformers on the top.

So because of this I feel like its a bit too soon to make a decision on which way to go. While I do trust all of your judgement on these matters, it seems shortsighted of me to try to rush to the finish line. I would hate to buy an amp or build one, and not have a good understanding of what does what, why each component is needed, and where value comes into play with each of those components. Thanks to all your input and advice, I feel like I am on the right path though, and for that I am very grateful

Jeff


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 Post subject: Re: First tube amp
PostPosted: January 28th, 2015, 11:38 pm 
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Take Grover up on the offer of the output trannies. Pay the shipping, Grover is on the west coast these days... I've got a design that's almost done which would be ideal for a first amp, and I was going to specify the Edcors anyway ;) I've got some used/strong 6550s you can have that'll get you right about 8W in the design I'm working on.

Roscoe

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 Post subject: Re: First tube amp
PostPosted: January 29th, 2015, 10:23 am 
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Joined: July 3rd, 2014, 7:47 am
Posts: 89
Thanks again for all the tips. I am always up for a big listening event. Small rowhouse may not be the ideal locale though. :)

Searching some forums I seem to have found a really good tubes for dummies resource. As a prior airman, I am not surprised it was written for the navy.

All joking aside it seems to go from very simple very slowly and explains each component.

Here is it in case anyone is curious.

https://archive.org/stream/BasicElectro ... 1/mode/2up

Thanks to this reading, so far I now understand what a transformer, rectifier and rectifier circuit, dissipation, cathode, and vacuum tube is and their relative jobs. Think I am going to gain a lot of understanding from this here book. Thanks Navy!


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 Post subject: Re: First tube amp
PostPosted: January 30th, 2015, 8:10 pm 
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Joined: July 3rd, 2014, 7:47 am
Posts: 89
Have been researching quite a bit, and ended up getting an email from a guy named Min. He runs a site with lots of higher quality tube amps. Super nice guy. He said all of his kits, given the quality parts included started at 4 figures. Obviously way out of the budget, but did recommend one which can be found here. http://parksaudiollc.com/clementine.html or the Get Set go

Not asking because I am considering, but because I am confused and hoping someone can enlighten me. The first line reads that this amp kit can build the Darling SE- the 3/4w Triode wonder. Or than it can be built into a more powerful 3-4 watt triode strapped amps. Huh? How is a 3-4 watt Triode strapped amp more powerful than a 3/4 watt Darling SE?

Feel like I am probably missing something simple here, but I have read it probably 20 times and am still sitting here scratching my head.


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 Post subject: Re: First tube amp
PostPosted: January 30th, 2015, 8:14 pm 
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:character-oldtimer: Last I checked 3 to 4 was more than three quarters.....

Roscoe

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 Post subject: Re: First tube amp
PostPosted: January 30th, 2015, 9:08 pm 
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Joined: July 3rd, 2014, 7:47 am
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And I feel like an idiot. Assumed it was another way of writing 3 to 4. Thanks Roscoe. What could you possibly power with 3/4 of a watt?


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 Post subject: Re: First tube amp
PostPosted: January 30th, 2015, 10:03 pm 
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Joined: April 22nd, 2013, 12:58 pm
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Look at the plate dissipation for the 1626 and then look at the plate dissipation for a 6L6GC. That will tell you how the "Triode Strapped" 6L6 amp is much more powerful than an amp with 1626 triodes as ouptupt tubes.


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 Post subject: Re: First tube amp
PostPosted: January 31st, 2015, 1:53 pm 
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Joined: December 12th, 2014, 3:17 pm
Posts: 11
JDCrae wrote:
What could you possibly power with 3/4 of a watt?

You'd be surprised. I have a pair of Brentworth Audio speakers that sound pretty darn good with 71As making 0.75W, and a pair of vintage SEAS full range drivers that sound amazing at low wattage. Ultimate dynamic range is, of course, a bit limited. Though not as much as you'd expect.
John


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 Post subject: Re: First tube amp
PostPosted: January 31st, 2015, 4:50 pm 
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JDCrae wrote:
What could you possibly power with 3/4 of a watt?


I used to have these:
Image
in my living room (they're in the garage at this point). For scale, the HF horn is 31" square, and that's a 15" woofer in the bottom. At 3/4 of a watt, there'd be no quiet place in your house ;)

3/4 of a watt into speakers that are 105dB/w/m is more sound than 50W into a pair that are a more typical 86dB/w/m...

Roscoe

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 Post subject: Re: First tube amp
PostPosted: February 4th, 2015, 5:11 pm 
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Joined: March 12th, 2013, 11:12 am
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I probably never use more than 2-3w with ~100db efficient speakers. The darling uses a 1626 IDHT which is a surprisingly nice sounding tube. I built a preamp that uses that tube and enjoy it.


JDCrae wrote:
And I feel like an idiot. Assumed it was another way of writing 3 to 4. Thanks Roscoe. What could you possibly power with 3/4 of a watt?


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