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 Post subject: Entering a new arena
PostPosted: December 10th, 2014, 6:42 pm 
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Joined: July 3rd, 2014, 7:47 am
Posts: 89
Hey All!

Am looking to buy my first turntable. I have never owned one, nor have any vinyl, so I am completely at a loss. I have looked at a lot of different publications on different ones, and was wanting to get opinions on a couple.

Any suggestions on others to consider, features to look for etc, would be hugely appreciated.

The link below is a site I continue to go back to, hopefully it's accurate.

http://turntablelab.com/pages/beginners ... turntables


And this is a site I am considering getting one from

http://store.uturnaudio.com/pages/build-your-own-orbit

Is there a noticeable difference between an acrylic and MDF plinth?

Appreciate all the help!


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 Post subject: Re: Entering a new arena
PostPosted: December 10th, 2014, 8:35 pm 
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Joined: March 12th, 2013, 11:12 am
Posts: 738
Looks like a fun way to get into vinyl. I would go with the acyric platter. Grado black is a good starter cart.


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 Post subject: Re: Entering a new arena
PostPosted: December 10th, 2014, 8:58 pm 
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Joined: March 12th, 2013, 1:49 pm
Posts: 214
vinyl is a very good sounding format, IMHO, depending on what you are looking for, and more than the digital format, the quality of the equipment makes a huge difference. Cheap turntable = poor sound, same for cartridge leading to disappointment, been there, done that. For best results, DO YOUR HOMEWORK! Get on the various forums, AA & AK in particular, and read. I would suggest used for TT, you can get much better quality for much less money, there are many good tables for not a lot of money used if you take your time, I sold a real nice DD for a couple of hun that was clean and a very good starter. Carts will need to be new of course, I did not find vinyl compelling until I went to a LOMC, that was a game changer for me and vinyl is now my main format. Vinyl can be a great-sounding and rewarding format, but you will need to get educated, otherwise wasted money and disappointment awaits. IRC that you are in the mid-west, correct? If you can find an audio club nearby, go and learn from all who have made mistakes and hear how good vinyl can sound. Of course I would recommend many of our members as people to see and hear from, but I think we are a bit far, of course, if in the neighborhood...


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 Post subject: Re: Entering a new arena
PostPosted: December 10th, 2014, 9:34 pm 
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Joined: March 5th, 2013, 9:35 am
Posts: 259
Location: Highland, MD
Hmm, I went to the first link in your mail, and just before Section 2.0 is a picture of the turntable I bought for my daughter (for Xmas, don't tell her!)
So I hope this is a good way to go - it has its own preamp built in - good for a college dorm. If you go this way, note that you may not be able to replace it with something that sounds better.

Everything - MDF, acrylic, etc. - has its own sound. You just need to find the sound you like. It will be hard to hear differences in materials unless you put them side by side and listen to one then the other. It's probably best to pull the trigger and get a turntable, then listen to it for a while. Then maybe listen to members' turntables at their houses or yours and see if the differences are worth added time and cost.

My humble opinion.

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- Guy


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 Post subject: Re: Entering a new arena
PostPosted: December 10th, 2014, 9:54 pm 
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Posts: 1682
Keep an eye on Cragslist too. Another very good site is http://www.vinylengine.com/

At that price point, something lie this: http://baltimore.craigslist.org/ele/4793847641.html might be a good start as well, especially if you can negotiate on price, and depending on what cartridge it has, a new stylus is a lot cheaper than a new cartridge....

Roscoe

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 Post subject: Re: Entering a new arena
PostPosted: December 11th, 2014, 7:56 am 
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Joined: July 3rd, 2014, 7:47 am
Posts: 89
Its funny you listed that one Roscoe, I had emailed the guy about it. Almost all the turntables on CL, all seem to be sold by him. Seems he is a bit of a collector. The one thing that always worries me with used equipment is the unknown. It's hard to discern( for me anyway) how something has been treated, age of internal components etc. He responded back saying he was not sure about the cartridge, though he thought perhaps a Shure?

What are some features that would be good to look for? Some seem to have a special feature for lowering the stylus to the record, others have auto returns, speed control etc.

My Marantz does not have a phono input, so I would either need one with a built in preamp, or have to buy a separate preamp. As I am not sure how serious I plan on getting into Vinyl, my thought was to tread lightly at first to get my feet wet.

Randy- I am in Baltimore, so have been lurking on CL looking at different models that have come up. Heard a lot of different turntables at CAF this year, but these were super high end units. Not sure listening to them helped me much. One thing I did notice for anyone that went, was the two rooms side by side that played via refurbished ES Quads. The one thing that has driven me nuts in the past, is that static-pop like sound. The first room, had a British guy with crazy shoes, his setup popped and had a lot of static. He was driving the speakers with a SS amp. The second room, had a tube amp driving the same speakers. No static or pop. They of course had different turntables I believe which makes comparing a bit more difficult.

Is the static/pop inherent to vinyl recordings?

Guy- I think it's a good sign that we have both looked at similar equipment. Makes me feel like I am at the very least- looking at quality equipment.

Am searching different publications as well, to see what is often recommended in different price ranges. Luckily there is a lot of info out there, just tricky to sift through it all to find applicable recommendations.

Thanks all!


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 Post subject: Re: Entering a new arena
PostPosted: December 11th, 2014, 8:15 am 
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Joined: March 12th, 2013, 1:49 pm
Posts: 214
JDCrae wrote:
Its funny you listed that one Roscoe, I had emailed the guy about it. Almost all the turntables on CL, all seem to be sold by him. Seems he is a bit of a collector. The one thing that always worries me with used equipment is the unknown. It's hard to discern( for me anyway) how something has been treated, age of internal components etc. He responded back saying he was not sure about the cartridge, though he thought perhaps a Shure?

What are some features that would be good to look for? Some seem to have a special feature for lowering the stylus to the record, others have auto returns, speed control etc.

My Marantz does not have a phono input, so I would either need one with a built in preamp, or have to buy a separate preamp. As I am not sure how serious I plan on getting into Vinyl, my thought was to tread lightly at first to get my feet wet.

Randy- I am in Baltimore, so have been lurking on CL looking at different models that have come up. Heard a lot of different turntables at CAF this year, but these were super high end units. Not sure listening to them helped me much. One thing I did notice for anyone that went, was the two rooms side by side that played via refurbished ES Quads. The one thing that has driven me nuts in the past, is that static-pop like sound. The first room, had a British guy with crazy shoes, his setup popped and had a lot of static. He was driving the speakers with a SS amp. The second room, had a tube amp driving the same speakers. No static or pop. They of course had different turntables I believe which makes comparing a bit more difficult.

Is the static/pop inherent to vinyl recordings?

Guy- I think it's a good sign that we have both looked at similar equipment. Makes me feel like I am at the very least- looking at quality equipment.

Am searching different publications as well, to see what is often recommended in different price ranges. Luckily there is a lot of info out there, just tricky to sift through it all to find applicable recommendations.

Thanks all!


Sorry, I thought you were in Ohio, not Baltimore. So much the better when the club has a gathering, you will get to hear some vinyl played in some good systems, it was such a situation that lead me to get a good system and table having heard how good vinyl can sound, a benchmark if you like. AFA pop/static, depends on a number of factors, but what blows a lot of friends that come over is how quiet playing a record is on my system, not to say I don't have some noisy ones, but those are far and few between...


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 Post subject: Re: Entering a new arena
PostPosted: December 11th, 2014, 9:22 am 
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Joined: March 12th, 2013, 11:12 am
Posts: 738
Ticks and pops are largly dependent on the quality of vinyl (how well manufactured and condition). To a lesser extent, cartridge aliignment may play a role. And some systems seem to accentuate or minimize record noise.

The way I have heard it described is that record noise is on top of the music (like someone coughing next to you at a concert) whereas with digital music the noise is intertwinned within the music.

I may be in a minority here but overall in my system, vinyl sounds better. I have a modern, high end DAC with ALL the bells and whistles which I enjoy but vinyl sounds more realistic for some reason.



I have thought about vintage tables many times (I shouldhave picked up some 124 s and 301s back when you could get them for a couple hundred $$$) but just like old cars, they often need restoring, maintainance and can be tweaky.

In a lot of ways, the orbit table you mentioned in your firts post looks interesting. All built in the USA, a unipivot utilizing a stacked trianhke of ball bearings, AC motor in a simple non-suspended plinth. I am partial to unipivots and non-suspended tables. I would certainly try this before getting as imilarluy priced entry table made in China or eastern europe.




JDCrae wrote:
Its funny you listed that one Roscoe, I had emailed the guy about it. Almost all the turntables on CL, all seem to be sold by him. Seems he is a bit of a collector. The one thing that always worries me with used equipment is the unknown. It's hard to discern( for me anyway) how something has been treated, age of internal components etc. He responded back saying he was not sure about the cartridge, though he thought perhaps a Shure?

What are some features that would be good to look for? Some seem to have a special feature for lowering the stylus to the record, others have auto returns, speed control etc.

My Marantz does not have a phono input, so I would either need one with a built in preamp, or have to buy a separate preamp. As I am not sure how serious I plan on getting into Vinyl, my thought was to tread lightly at first to get my feet wet.

Randy- I am in Baltimore, so have been lurking on CL looking at different models that have come up. Heard a lot of different turntables at CAF this year, but these were super high end units. Not sure listening to them helped me much. One thing I did notice for anyone that went, was the two rooms side by side that played via refurbished ES Quads. The one thing that has driven me nuts in the past, is that static-pop like sound. The first room, had a British guy with crazy shoes, his setup popped and had a lot of static. He was driving the speakers with a SS amp. The second room, had a tube amp driving the same speakers. No static or pop. They of course had different turntables I believe which makes comparing a bit more difficult.

Is the static/pop inherent to vinyl recordings?

Guy- I think it's a good sign that we have both looked at similar equipment. Makes me feel like I am at the very least- looking at quality equipment.

Am searching different publications as well, to see what is often recommended in different price ranges. Luckily there is a lot of info out there, just tricky to sift through it all to find applicable recommendations.

Thanks all!


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 Post subject: Re: Entering a new arena
PostPosted: December 11th, 2014, 9:36 am 
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Joined: December 14th, 2013, 2:19 pm
Posts: 948
That little Orbit table looks pretty neat. I'd buy one, or similar. Easy to sell again, when you upgrade. ALWAYS a market for nice looking relatively new turntables.

That said, one can spend stupid money on vinyl and still not get "there"!

As for static, tics and pops, take care of your vinyl (once you get some). You are not far from York, PA (~45 minutes from 83/695). On Market Street, there is a really nice record shop, Iko's, with very affordable vinyl in good/great condition. He also has new vinyl on the shelf. Certainly thousands of records in view.

A record cleaning machine and good cleaners are essential for maintenance. Prices vary. Speak to Dave Pogue about the solvents. I bought what he suggested and they work great. Sound like a lot of trouble? Well, it keeps away those tics and pops, as well as revealing information deeper in the groove.

Don't buy with an integral phono stage, you need flexibility. When you upgrade, it will be nice to do one piece at a time: phono stage, cartridge, arm, turntable.

What you put the table on affects it's sound. Some tables have advanced suspensions that really do work. The affordable tables have crappy suspensions, best defeated. Affordable tables therefore will not have much attenuation of noise from the platform it's on. SO, the resonances of the stand, excited by sound in the room, will go right through the stylus into your system. Dave McGown built an outstanding isolation base, granite (which, by itself, rings) slab in a sandbox. Works like a charm.

It's cute that the site in the first link you sent suggests that the most expensive phono stages cost over $500. While that's true, you can add a zero to that number if you want to buy a REALLY good one! Or, being DIY'ers, we can build an amazing one for a fraction of that cost. But not $500!

Do you want to go MM, MI, MC, LOMC???? or other in your cartridge? I'd suggest a good quality MM or HOMC to start (they can always be your fallback cartridge when you upgrade and the "good" cartridge needs to be retipped). A low output cartridge WILL need a step-up device, a head amp or SUT, step-up-transformer, because the output level is too low for a conventional phono stage. This is a complication best left for "down-the-road". Although, once you go there (to a LOMC) you'll reach a whole new world of amazing sound. There are many EXCELLENT HOMC, MM and MI cartridges available, however.

There is just a mountain of information to consider: cables, mats, spikes, stands, carts, arms, tables, treatments, arm cables, SUT, preamps, cable lifters, power cords (DO NOT DISCOUNT THIS ONE!), power line filtering, record clamps, vinyl storage, cleaners, cleaning solutions, brushes, alignment tools, etc. This is a real journey!

Are you SURE you want to do this? I can easily see the advantages in going pure digital!

But for me, there is no substitute for vinyl!!!!! Okay, except for reel-to-reel, but let's NOT go there!

Good luck, and welcome to the BRIGHT side of The Force! your Jedi training has just begun! :violence-swords:

Stuart


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 Post subject: Re: Entering a new arena
PostPosted: December 11th, 2014, 9:39 am 
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Joined: December 14th, 2013, 2:19 pm
Posts: 948
Did I mention I like the Orbit table? I mean really! Like Pete said, Made in USA. How often to we get to support American businesses at an affordable price? :flags-usa: :character-beavisbutthead:


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