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PostPosted: October 11th, 2023, 11:44 am 
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HAL wrote:
I was dissapointed with their response without the XO. The basic response is not very flat.

Sounds much better with the DSP and HiRez DAC's after correcting the response.

My concern had nothing to do with frequency response. My concern has to do with additional electronics getting in the way of transparency and musicality. Subtle textures and tonal values in the playback get obscured.

The quality I describe is what I call the "breath of life." The fine tonal harmonics and texture don't get through. I speak from personal experience. Forget measure frequency response and just try it out.

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PostPosted: October 11th, 2023, 12:02 pm 
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This DSP crossover has that covered. Passive components sound smeared in comparison. Why spend more money on things like Deuland parts when this sounds better and less expensive.

Since I use digital 99% of the time, their are no components between the amps and drivers. Just the DSP and HiRez DAC's.

Balanced DC coupled circuitry with Class A output stage. Works well for me.


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PostPosted: October 11th, 2023, 12:49 pm 
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HAL wrote:
Just the DSP and HiRez DAC's.

The disclaimer here is the word "JUST." "Just this" and "just that" all adds up.

During my Hi-Fi travels (close to 50 years and counting -- OUCH!) The K.I.S.S. method gets playback quality as close as one can get to the mixing desk output.

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PostPosted: October 11th, 2023, 12:50 pm 
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Rich is absolutely right. I am a great fan of what I call is texture, the ability to render small details and correct timing. If that is correct, massed voices have individual characters. Groups of brass show the particular resonances of each instrument. Violins separate and leave the screeching mess behind. I am using the same DSP as Rich and it is a revelation. Having to go through passive crossovers is a signal nightmare. There are huge opportunities to muck up the timing and have stored energy floating around. They also prevent the amplifiers from exerting maximum control over the drivers and prevent a greater challenge as a load to the amps.

I have heard your system Walt and was very impressed, but your way is not the only way. There are lots of ways to get from A to B and there is not only one solution. Just like many of the passive components sucked 100 years ago, also some of the early attempts at DSP had significant problems. However, things have moved forward in both camps and you should not dismiss additional processing in the chain out of hand. The real question is whether or not the additional processing can offset the problems inherent in a minimalist approach to make it worthwhile. In my case, it has. As they say, "Your results may vary". In either scenario, the ability of the person setting up the system to understand the impacts of the different pieces and the ability to chose the best combination will determine how closely the results will satisfy the particular desires of the individual. What I find most intriguing is the degree of control you have to change the characteristics of the sound while actually listening, something not possible with passive approaches.


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PostPosted: October 11th, 2023, 1:28 pm 
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tomp wrote:
Rich is absolutely right. I am a great fan of what I call is texture, the ability to render small details and correct timing. If that is correct, massed voices have individual characters. Groups of brass show the particular resonances of each instrument. Violins separate and leave the screeching mess behind. I am using the same DSP as Rich and it is a revelation. Having to go through passive crossovers is a signal nightmare. There are huge opportunities to muck up the timing and have stored energy floating around. They also prevent the amplifiers from exerting maximum control over the drivers and prevent a greater challenge as a load to the amps.

I have heard your system Walt and was very impressed, but your way is not the only way. There are lots of ways to get from A to B and there is not only one solution. Just like many of the passive components sucked 100 years ago, also some of the early attempts at DSP had significant problems. However, things have moved forward in both camps and you should not dismiss additional processing in the chain out of hand. The real question is whether or not the additional processing can offset the problems inherent in a minimalist approach to make it worthwhile. In my case, it has. As they say, "Your results may vary". In either scenario, the ability of the person setting up the system to understand the impacts of the different pieces and the ability to chose the best combination will determine how closely the results will satisfy the particular desires of the individual. What I find most intriguing is the degree of control you have to change the characteristics of the sound while actually listening, something not possible with passive approaches.

I get that -- yet -- I have not had the privilege of listening to music through all of that processing (I have been in the presence of some serious music systems) that just did not have that relaxed natural presentation.

In every instance it just sounded "electronic" for want of a better word. And yes -- poorly executed passive systems -- well again -- want for a better word -- they just sound like crap.

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PostPosted: October 11th, 2023, 4:34 pm 
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SoundMods wrote:
tomp wrote:
Rich is absolutely right. I am a great fan of what I call is texture, the ability to render small details and correct timing. If that is correct, massed voices have individual characters. Groups of brass show the particular resonances of each instrument. Violins separate and leave the screeching mess behind. I am using the same DSP as Rich and it is a revelation. Having to go through passive crossovers is a signal nightmare. There are huge opportunities to muck up the timing and have stored energy floating around. They also prevent the amplifiers from exerting maximum control over the drivers and prevent a greater challenge as a load to the amps.

I have heard your system Walt and was very impressed, but your way is not the only way. There are lots of ways to get from A to B and there is not only one solution. Just like many of the passive components sucked 100 years ago, also some of the early attempts at DSP had significant problems. However, things have moved forward in both camps and you should not dismiss additional processing in the chain out of hand. The real question is whether or not the additional processing can offset the problems inherent in a minimalist approach to make it worthwhile. In my case, it has. As they say, "Your results may vary". In either scenario, the ability of the person setting up the system to understand the impacts of the different pieces and the ability to chose the best combination will determine how closely the results will satisfy the particular desires of the individual. What I find most intriguing is the degree of control you have to change the characteristics of the sound while actually listening, something not possible with passive approaches.

I get that -- yet -- I have not had the privilege of listening to music through all of that processing (I have been in the presence of some serious music systems) that just did not have that relaxed natural presentation.



In every instance it just sounded "electronic" for want of a better word. And yes -- poorly executed passive systems -- well again -- want for a better word -- they just sound like crap.


You have an invitation to come up and listen to my system. Jim Gerfin will be coming up in the near future and you might be able to ride with him.


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PostPosted: October 13th, 2023, 3:04 pm 
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if Jim is coming on a weekend, I would like to join.


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PostPosted: October 13th, 2023, 5:16 pm 
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I don't want to burden Jim with turning this into a group. Perhaps we can get an alternate get together late spring 2024.


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PostPosted: October 17th, 2023, 8:18 am 
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The prototype servo amps for the two 4x8in servo sub modular towers should be arriving this week.

Rythmik Audio has modified a pair of HX310 servo amps to use with the 8in OB servo subs. :)


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PostPosted: October 18th, 2023, 4:01 pm 
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Assembling the two servo amp boxes to mount the plate amps in for use with the two 4x8in OB servo sub towers.

They are both assembled and the glue is drying. Should be good tomorrow for use on Friday when the amps arrive.


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AmpBoxAssembledGluedClamped#2.jpg
AmpBoxAssembledGluedClamped#2.jpg [ 292.37 KiB | Viewed 735608 times ]
AmpBoxAssembledGluedClamped.jpg
AmpBoxAssembledGluedClamped.jpg [ 319.33 KiB | Viewed 735608 times ]
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