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DIY MTM Tower speakers
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Author:  mix4fix [ December 4th, 2018, 10:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: DIY MTM Tower speakers
I have both cabinets, one side of drivers, and not enough mounting screw for one side. I'm waiting for the other drivers, and whatever is left from the accessories. I asked about the pre-build passive crossovers because I just trying to get the thing to work.

It's the same with those other drivers. I need old cabinets so I can get them to work. We can perhaps build something better with that.
Author:  tomp [ December 4th, 2018, 11:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: DIY MTM Tower speakers
Stuart:

I don't understand why you say the test was flawed unless breaking a preconceived notion that someone has about expected outcome makes it flawed in your mind.

The random selection pattern was pulled from a site on the web that mathematically determines randomness. There was no equipment between the caps under test and the speakers. If anyone would like to repeat the test I would be happy to help. BTW, you are incorrect in your memory of the results. No one including David got a result anywhere near 70%. Statistically you could have gotten the same results by flipping a coin.

As far as the caps, prior to the test there were claims that the differences in the caps were huge. As the test results showed that was not the case with no one being able to distinguish between the caps on a level beyond random. Let's do it again if you want more confidence in the test.
Author:  TubeDriver [ December 4th, 2018, 11:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: DIY MTM Tower speakers
Folks, this is the DIY Group! The beauty of DIY is that you can experiment, modify, change your mind etc.

Maybe start with the simple passive 5 part per channel xover with modest parts to get an idea if these speakers will be ballpark worth dropping lots more $$$ into (with high end parts or active xover)?

If the basic xover version sounds good, then start..........DIYing it! Get the better parts or jump into active xover and biamping it.


Starting out a with new project with Mundorf caps, fancy inductors or biamped, active xover almost defeats the DIY spirit unless you are very sure it will be worth it (or you have lots of $$$ to burn).

Just my humble opinion, there are a lot of ways to bake a cake! :music-listening:
Author:  SoundMods [ December 4th, 2018, 11:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: DIY MTM Tower speakers
Okay, here we go. Time for me to piss off everyone.


I'm not pissed. But I don't torture my bank account with the high-priced stuff (well, the truth be known, I did do that for my Carys. Money well spent) -- but between the Soviet and U.S. military surplus (eg. Electronic Concepts polycarbonate caps and Soviet era Teflons) I can get the job done. I have past experience with the Solen and Dayton products. There is a mechanical hard glare to those caps that DO NOT serve the music. It doesn't seem to matter where they are used -- line level or speakers.

The rumors are true -- you only get what you pay for.
Author:  ratbagp [ December 4th, 2018, 11:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: DIY MTM Tower speakers
These MBGO caps are cheap enough and probably more than good enough.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/MBGO-2-10uF-16 ... :rk:3:pf:0

You might find this discussion about MBGO caps in amplifiers interesting.

https://db.audioasylum.com/mhtml/m.html ... ext%3Dmbgo

ray
Author:  SoundMods [ December 4th, 2018, 12:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: DIY MTM Tower speakers
ratbagp wrote:
These MBGO caps are cheap enough and probably more than good enough.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/MBGO-2-10uF-16 ... :rk:3:pf:0

You might find this discussion about MBGO caps in amplifiers interesting.

https://db.audioasylum.com/mhtml/m.html ... ext%3Dmbgo

ray


I also tried paper/oil caps and found them to be a band-aid to cover up less than adequate electronics. They will soften hard edges to enable a more musical result. However, with electronics that have the chops for good sound reproduction -- paper/oil caps smother the sound. It can sound opaque with a flat mid-range.
Author:  Stuart Polansky [ December 4th, 2018, 12:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: DIY MTM Tower speakers
SoundMods wrote:
ratbagp wrote:
These MBGO caps are cheap enough and probably more than good enough.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/MBGO-2-10uF-16 ... :rk:3:pf:0

You might find this discussion about MBGO caps in amplifiers interesting.

https://db.audioasylum.com/mhtml/m.html ... ext%3Dmbgo

ray


I also tried paper/oil caps and found them to be a band-aid to cover up less than adequate electronics. They will soften hard edges to enable a more musical result. However, with electronics that have the chops for good sound reproduction -- paper/oil caps smother the sound. It can sound opaque with a flat mid-range.


OR, spend $60 on two amps (if you have nothing) and no more than $100 on an active crossover, as little as you want on cables, biamp and avoid the whole cap fiasco!

Don't like the speakers after that? Change drivers, adjust the XO and try again! Still don't like the results? Build new speakers, connect your amps and crossover, readjust and try again!

Want still better sound? Build some nice amps, one-by-one, then, when you are ready, buy a better crossover!

The passive caps will cost more than the crossover and two T-amps! And, suck by comparison!
Author:  tomp [ December 4th, 2018, 1:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: DIY MTM Tower speakers
Stuart is correct on his assessment of active vs passive. When I built the eggs I needed to have one configuration that was passive so that I had a high quality full range speaker that I could use for testing amplifiers. Even using the "crummy" :crazy: Dayton caps the parts cost for the passive XO was over $400. That plus the aggravation of having to go through several iterations of component changes to get the balance correct reminded me why I had not built a passive crossover in over 40 years.
Author:  Cogito [ December 4th, 2018, 2:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: DIY MTM Tower speakers
mix4fix wrote:
I have both cabinets, one side of drivers, and not enough mounting screw for one side. I'm waiting for the other drivers, and whatever is left from the accessories. I asked about the pre-build passive crossovers because I just trying to get the thing to work.

It's the same with those other drivers. I need old cabinets so I can get them to work. We can perhaps build something better with that.


As I said in Roscoe's place, gimme a week to look for stuff. I should have most of them. I used the stuffing material for the Altecs, that you need to buy.

I would recommend you to stop worrying about upgrading the tweeter, 8" woofers, crossovers etc. All you need to get these speakers singing is assemble the crossover, wire the drivers and stuff the cabinet. That's it.

If you don't like them after spending few weeks, then think about upgrading. Your upgrade options are very limited because it is a TL MTM speaker. You cannot change a tweeter or a woofer and expect it to work better. The best upgrades you can do on these are:
1. Play around with stuffing density
2. Experiment with positioning from back walls.
Author:  Cogito [ December 4th, 2018, 2:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: DIY MTM Tower speakers
Quote:
biamp and avoid the whole cap fiasco!


You still need a crossover network, either active or passive. The only difference is, the crossover network is moved from after the amp to before.
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