Preliminary impressions of BACCH

[tomp]

to each is own......
I never thought much of the BACCH demos at the audio shows which one would have to assume that vendors selling this tech knew how to set ip up and only play music that supposedly shows off this bit of kit.
I still believe that anything added to the production of music just takes away from the from the original intent of the artists or producers.
All this digital processing to me just adds noise and distortion that were not there in the original recording. Remember the great MQA promise that all just disappeared as people realized that there was nothing beneficial to all that processing. I think BACCH is just another way to get insecure audiophiles thinking if they just buy this thing they will get closer to an ideal that is not really there.
Just keep it simple and enjoy the music and stop jacking off to your system.

I agree that many of the tracks played during any show demos are not representative of the bulk of recorded music, but are designed to highlight an effect that can be created. The vendors only have a short time to get someone's attention and that means that pieces that can easily show differentiation of their product vs other products make it into the demos. Gee, that sort of sounds like Marketing 101. Second, good digital is like good analog in the fact that neither add noise and distortion. Third, BACCH does not add anything to the recording process and the gains are influenced by the quality of the music being played back. Fourth, I listen to a lot of live music both at the Philadelphia Orchestra and other local groups so I have a good idea of what live music sounds like. From January to March, I will be attending 3 performances of the Philadelphia and more in the summer. As I said before, if you are able to come up to my place, I think you will hear what I am speaking about. Or, you can live in the past and not see what is happening now with new technologies. BTW, speaking of insecurities, it seems that blindly sticking to something from the past without seeing what new things are available could be considered very insecure.

[Pelliott321]

Just because its new, doesn't mean it's any good. I think Walt's approach is the best way to get the most out of a recording. Properly sort out your system without added gimmickry. Ultra HiRes digital is the same. Its trying to solve a problem that really does not matter. There are plenty of red book CD out there that are just glorious. I was a diehard analog guy for the longest time until I found a DAC that was musical to my ears in my system. Ninety percent of what I play now is streaming from qobuz. I enjoy the music. I do not enjoy stressing over the latest wiz-bang crap that somebody invented to take money out of your pocket.
Audiophiles are the most neurotic, self-absorbed, insecure people I have met. The constant need to search for the unobtainable, mythical ideal playback is a character flaw, not the pursuit of something worthwhile. It's the music stupid.

[SoundMods]

Just because its new, doesn't mean it's any good. I think Walt's approach is the best way to get the most out of a recording. Properly sort out your system without added gimmickry. Ultra HiRes digital is the same. Its trying to solve a problem that really does not matter. There are plenty of red book CD out there that are just glorious. I was a diehard analog guy for the longest time until I found a DAC that was musical to my ears in my system. Ninety percent of what I play now is streaming from qobuz. I enjoy the music. I do not enjoy stressing over the latest wiz-bang crap that somebody invented to take money out of your pocket.
Audiophiles are the most neurotic, self-absorbed, insecure people I have met. The constant need to search for the unobtainable, mythical ideal playback is a character flaw, not the pursuit of something worthwhile. It's the music stupid.

Yes -- what Paul said EXACTLY -- let's call this the final comment on the subject. CAVEAT EMPTOR!

[Pelliott321]

One more comment, please........
There has only been a few properly sorted out systems I have experienced in my journey.
Walt's system still stands out among them. There is less than a handful I have heard at audio shows.
But here is the latest well sorted out system I wrote about for Part Time Audio
https://pt.audio/2025/12/26/sota-onyx-turntable-ebi-khumar-mc-cartridge/

Last edited by Pelliott321 on January 27th, 2026, 4:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[tomp]

Just because its new, doesn't mean it's any good. I think Walt's approach is the best way to get the most out of a recording. Properly sort out your system without added gimmickry. Ultra HiRes digital is the same. Its trying to solve a problem that really does not matter. There are plenty of red book CD out there that are just glorious. I was a diehard analog guy for the longest time until I found a DAC that was musical to my ears in my system. Ninety percent of what I play now is streaming from qobuz. I enjoy the music. I do not enjoy stressing over the latest wiz-bang crap that somebody invented to take money out of your pocket.
Audiophiles are the most neurotic, self-absorbed, insecure people I have met. The constant need to search for the unobtainable, mythical ideal playback is a character flaw, not the pursuit of something worthwhile. It's the music stupid.

Yes -- what Paul said EXACTLY -- let's call this the final comment on the subject. CAVEAT EMPTOR!

Agreed. No way to change the opinions of those that have closed minds.

[Pelliott321]

You have to include yourself, Tom. You refuse to accept that one cannot make a silk purse from a sow's ear.
The whole industry of recording and playing back music is so filled with potholes that impede any truth to source. I am just saying realize that and just enjoy the music instead of listening to your equipment.

[SoundMods]

Just because its new, doesn't mean it's any good. I think Walt's approach is the best way to get the most out of a recording. Properly sort out your system without added gimmickry. Ultra HiRes digital is the same. Its trying to solve a problem that really does not matter. There are plenty of red book CD out there that are just glorious. I was a diehard analog guy for the longest time until I found a DAC that was musical to my ears in my system. Ninety percent of what I play now is streaming from qobuz. I enjoy the music. I do not enjoy stressing over the latest wiz-bang crap that somebody invented to take money out of your pocket.
Audiophiles are the most neurotic, self-absorbed, insecure people I have met. The constant need to search for the unobtainable, mythical ideal playback is a character flaw, not the pursuit of something worthwhile. It's the music stupid.

Yes -- what Paul said EXACTLY -- let's call this the final comment on the subject. CAVEAT EMPTOR!

Agreed. No way to change the opinions of those that have closed minds.

Tom: You never disappoint -- you always have to have the last word.

[Jim G]

I have no idea why we would simply condemn someone's opinion about what sounds good to THEM in THEIR room as Hocus Pocus junk, or a path they choose to follow to get there. Why would anyone share what they're working on here if they get blowback like that?

I've heard all the iterations of Tom's system from when he first built it until summer 2025 (Have you?) and the improvements over time are remarkable. He's just doing the same thing everyone else here is doing, tinkering to make improvements to the sound that makes the music more enjoyable, but with digital processing and software instead of parts swapping. I imagine if he'd made those improvements by switching from Teflon to Polypropylene capacitors and upgraded to hand silver leafed radar wire all would be good? Is dsp on the naughty list?

Maybe you don't care for reproduced music that's time coherent? Or phase coherent? Maybe that's not "musical"? I don't know, but I got a demonstration of the BACCH-SP a couple years back and thought it was extraordinary (excluding the exaggerated demo tracks), but also musical. Realistic representation of the instruments and voices tonally without coloration. Excellent transients, leading and trailing edges. No overhang. Realism, with low level detail. Best example of room correction I've heard at the listening position.

I appreciate that what you THINK Tom's system sounds like at this moment may not be what you guys like, but seriously, is it necessary to trash it or his choices? And then follow up with what you feel is a reasonable alternative, an analogue set up you do think sounds good, that appears to cost about $60,000 for the turntable, arm, cartridge, and phono preamplifier? Oy! (Insert forehead slap emoji)

[SoundMods]

I have no idea why we would simply condemn someone's opinion about what sounds good to THEM in THEIR room as Hocus Pocus junk, or a path they choose to follow to get there. Why would anyone share what they're working on here if they get blowback like that?

I've heard all the iterations of Tom's system from when he first built it until summer 2025 (Have you?) and the improvements over time are remarkable. He's just doing the same thing everyone else here is doing, tinkering to make improvements to the sound that makes the music more enjoyable, but with digital processing and software instead of parts swapping. I imagine if he'd made those improvements by switching from Teflon to Polypropylene capacitors and upgraded to hand silver leafed radar wire all would be good? Is dsp on the naughty list?

Maybe you don't care for reproduced music that's time coherent? Or phase coherent? Maybe that's not "musical"? I don't know, but I got a demonstration of the BACCH-SP a couple years back and thought it was extraordinary (excluding the exaggerated demo tracks), but also musical. Realistic representation of the instruments and voices tonally without coloration. Excellent transients, leading and trailing edges. No overhang. Realism, with low level detail. Best example of room correction I've heard at the listening position.

I appreciate that what you THINK Tom's system sounds like at this moment may not be what you guys like, but seriously, is it necessary to trash it or his choices? And then follow up with what you feel is a reasonable alternative, an analogue set up you do think sounds good, that appears to cost about $60,000 for the turntable, arm, cartridge, and phono preamplifier? Oy! (Insert forehead slap emoji)

This has nothing to do with Tom, or his system. It has to do with the BACCH kit.

[Stuart Polansky]

There are a lot of really neat projects that members of this group are working on.

This conversation is the exact reason why the guys involved aren't posting here anymore.